Can Remedy put the Windows XP/Vista/7 thing to rest already?

[Angry_Fork]

I want to build a new comp. now. I know Remedy said it was Vista exclusive, but that was then and this is now. Vista flopped and 7 is coming in to mop up the mess. I want to get 7 but I don't want to wait for it to come out to build my computer. If Remedy confirms that they'll give XP support then I can just build my computer now and install XP without worries.

So just tell us whether it'll have XP support or not =(, and please other posters don't turn this topic into a XP-hate fest. I don't have a problem upgrading, but XP is great and I don't want to upgrade if I don't have to, especially since 7 will probably have problems of it's own for 6 months in the beginning, or maybe it'll flop and something else will come in like for Vista who knows.

So yea point is can Remedy give a current, final answer on this? I'm sure if it did support XP they would've been developing for that for a long time now, meaning I can't really believe them if they say they're not sure or don't know after all the game is coming in spring apparently.

[shorty]

Alan Wake will not support XP. Remedy has said it themself many times.

[Angry_Fork]

I heard it once in like a 2006 interview. I need them to say "We guarentee it won't be on XP, ever" and it should be from an interview this year. Then that'll be enough closure.

But a Vista exclusive statement from 2006 or even 2007 means nothing imo. FF13 was a PS3 exclusive for 3 years until last year.

[Demite]

*sigh*

[AnttiApina]

For god's sake... So what if it is Vista exclusive? Hackers did unlock Halo 2 PC version which was originally only for Vista.

Now it can also be played on XP.

I am sure that Alan Wake will also be hacked.

[moldy_tomato]

There is no DirectX 10 for XP.





Expect for the unofficial one (http://www.techmixer.com/download-directx-10-for-windows-xp/).

[shwhjw]

I know Remedy said it was Vista exclusive, but that was then and this is now.

True. XP is even older now, so what makes you think they will have changed their minds? I doubt any of us are Xp haters here, it's just that we accept it's waaay past its prime. I have only seen/heard good things about Windows 7.

[EnixLHQ]

FF13 was a PS3 exclusive for 3 years until last year.

So -and let me get this straight- you are saying that if Remedy does not say anything, or they say it's MS's decision ultimately, OR if they say that it may or may not come out on another platform later, you are willing to build your system for a game that may or may not be on it up to 3 years after it's released on the native platforms?

Hokay... Color me confused.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like getting a game for a gaming system when I could get it for the PC instead, and I do feel burned when the release goes from 'exclusive' to 'out tomorrow, and it's in a bundle!' and I'm stuck either buying the same game again or wallowing in envy of those who waited. And, I absolutely HATE it when the PC version turns out to be the buggy version, or is the one with sub-par content, is the rushed one, the DLC does measure up to the console, etc, etc... Or, if I'm too impatient for the reviews, I find out later that the control scheme is so much better on the other platform. Yes, these are all very bad things.

But, Remedy has said time and time again that they are only developing for the 360 and Vista. They have also said that MS only wants it on Vista. And, MS has a history of being hard-assed about their policy choices.

So, whatever choice you are going to make, you've already made it. We know that AW will be on the 360 and Vista. It might get packaged later as a Vista/W7 game, but I doubt the marketing is even going to bother with that beyond a label.

Either way, we have until Spring '10 before we see AW, and by then if you are still using XP, there will be options available to you to upgrade to Vista or W7, since MS wants W7 out by this October.

And frankly, with Vista's SP1, SP2, free virtual machine and compatability mode, the only reason to hold on to the XP platform is for nostalgia of a different, perhaps simpler time for you.

Don't get started on game performance. My games have never been more stable, fast, or beautiful. And soon XP won't be able to handle the games and hardware that are already on the horizon.

Besides, MS will stop supporting XP very soon anyway. (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9070119) Mainstream Support ended in April of '09, and security patches will only last until April 2014, which means that they have already stopped worrying about the OS when it comes to new tech and they won't even care if any major bugs start cropping up in it from developers who choose only to develop for Vista.

Build with Vista. Or, in the very least, build with XP and plan to upgrade to W7. There really is no reason not to. Not anymore.

[Angry_Fork]

^My comp. is already capable of playing AW, probably on atleast medium settings, I can play Crysis on High with 2xAA. I'm just upgrading my mobo for certain reasons and I need to reinstall Windows afterwards.

I don't want to install XP and then find out it's exclusive to Vista/7 and then I have to go through all the trouble of putting my crap on an external hardrive while I reinstall, and then finding all of the drivers again for everything, it's a pain in the ass. If I know that it's XP I can just install that now and not have to do any of that.

MS may be stubborn but they're not stubborn enough to alienate a potential 65% of their base. I don't see what the big deal is about Remedy just flat out saying it won't ever be on XP. If it really won't I'd like them to say that, then i'll wait on getting a new mobo until the official Windows 7 drops and i'll upgrade then. I just don't feel like waiting I want to get the mobo now, along with a quad core since right now I have a dual core.

[Darkness62]

Why bother with XP? Just install Windows 7 RC 1. It's free and it's out right now. XP is done, move on.. This was put to rest long ago, how many announcements you need till you clue in?

http://news.filefront.com/alan-wake-to-be-vista-exclusive-says-remedy/

[Piiska]

Why bother with XP?
Maybe simply because some think it's a lot better than Vista/7? For example I do. It's just not that easy to switch to Win7 after having used XP for years even if it's free..

[crage]

I think you should just wait until Windows 7 is released and install it on your new system, maybe the price of the components have dropped.

[shorty]

Why dont you just build an XP computer, then buy a 360 for Alan Wake. It's very cheap these days.

[Darkness62]

Maybe simply because some think it's a lot better than Vista/7? For example I do. It's just not that easy to switch to Win7 after having used XP for years even if it's free..

That's your problem, not Remedy's or Microsoft's. If you think it's better, I would like to know how? Your comment leads me to believe you have never tried either. You're a prime example of why Microsoft should have moved Vista's development time along a little faster, if they had released on schedule maybe you wouldn't still be clinging to an obsolete OS. Well you and the other XP fanbois are the poster children for why Microsoft has returned to a two to three year release schedule again. Maybe you will let go of XP when Windows 8 is released in 2011/2012? :rolleyes:

Anyway have fun playing Alan Wake when it's released.... Awww, I guess not.:giggle:

[Piiska]

That's your problem, not Remedy's or Microsoft's.

Problem? Whose? FYI check this link: http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/. This survey was done on May 2009. It reveals that almost 60% of Steam users have XP installed on their system. Ring any bells?
I think this pretty much tells the truth about today's situation with operating systems:most of the people still prefer XP over Vista and Win7 because Xp is a lot better. Right?

I know many people who think that AW is going to be awesome but they aren't going to buy it because of its "Vista exclusivity". And they aren't the only ones. Does it really make sense to buy a operating system which costs hundreds of dollards just to get one game to work? I don't think so.

At this point it really is Microsoft's and Remedy's problem when people refuse to buy the game/Vista. Money matters!

As of "my problem" I wouldn't call it like that. I have gone through a lot worse and being unable to play one game is just a minor setback for me. So don't you tell me about "my problems" as you clearly don't know anything about them.

Anyway have fun playing Alan Wake when it's released.... Awww, I guess not.

Funny... not.

Why dont you just build an XP computer, then buy a 360 for Alan Wake. It's very cheap these days.

I've thought about that and when/if the price will be reduced it wouldn't be a bad option tho. The problem is that the games for X360 cost a lot and buying it just for a couple of games makes me ponder..

[Angry_Fork]

Why dont you just build an XP computer, then buy a 360 for Alan Wake. It's very cheap these days.

Because i've heard enough horror stories with games like Mass Effect on 360 that have framerate problems, loading problems, etc. because they're still using lame DVD and have to accommodate people without a hardrive. I prefer better graphics/resolution/framerate on PC, and Remedy have always been PC-first kind of developers so i'm hoping they use Quad Core stuff to their potential like they've said before.

Plus I don't have the patience for RROD, (I don't even have the patience to wait for Windows 7 lol) I don't believe for a second any of the new chips have significantly helped it other than a few percentiles.

[sidetwo]

Not too sure about the framerate problems as I haven't had them but the new update for 360 allows you to store the game on your hard drive to solve problems like that.

So that's not an issue.

As for RROD, I have had a xbox 360 for nearly 4 years and never had any problems at all.

As for Remedy always being PC-first kind of developers, that is true.. except in the case of Alan Wake where it's 360-first and then the PC.

[Dennis]

I really hope the OnLive concept will work how the devs a saying. This would solve all the problems for most of the (PC-) gamers (if it isn´t to expensive)!

[Darkness62]

Problem? Whose? FYI check this link: http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/. This survey was done on May 2009. It reveals that almost 60% of Steam users have XP installed on their system. Ring any bells?
I think this pretty much tells the truth about today's situation with operating systems:most of the people still prefer XP over Vista and Win7 because Xp is a lot better. Right?


http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/41581/113/
http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/03/23/vista.at.30pc.market.share/
http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-na-weekly-200903-200912
http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/gamingsmackdown-windows-xp-vs-windows-vista-vs-windows-7-604178?artc_pg=1


I know many people who think that AW is going to be awesome but they aren't going to buy it because of its "Vista exclusivity". And they aren't the only ones. Does it really make sense to buy a operating system which costs hundreds of dollards just to get one game to work? I don't think so.


If that is the only reason you would have to upgrade, it becomes even clearer you have never tried either Vista or Windows 7. As a side note I have no interest in whether or not both your friends buy Alan Wake.


At this point it really is Microsoft's and Remedy's problem when people refuse to buy the game/Vista. Money matters!


Hey you are right, hold your breath till they change their mind and make Alan Wake the XP edition... :p

[EnixLHQ]

Hey you are right, hold your breath till they change their mind and make Alan Wake the XP edition...

This is really the breadth of the argument here: Whether or not to wait on building a system with Vista based on if AW will come on XP.

The answer is a resounding 'maybe, but not likely'.

Don't bank on it. It may happen, but since MS isn't considering XP an active OS anymore, I don't think it will.

[Morry]

Awww I got the XP Fanboi all riled up... :cry: It's ok XP fanboi, you'll be fine. Anyway I guess the steady decline for Windows XP in the data you presented eluded you? Hey if XP works for you go with it, you are even free to cry about the upcoming apps that will no longer support XP (Alan Wake for one), but I am also free to bash you for it. Because as your pointless rant clearly shows, you have used neither Vista or Windows 7 and have yet to present any evidence that XP is better than either. The thought that someone (you) would think XP is better than Windows 7 has me actually ROFL. Thanks for that. Anyway here is some real data for you to misinterpret and get confused about.

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/41581/113/
http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/03/23/vista.at.30pc.market.share/
http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-na-weekly-200903-200912
http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/gamingsmackdown-windows-xp-vs-windows-vista-vs-windows-7-604178?artc_pg=1

From a gamer's point of view - XP is better. I have far less compatibility issues with old games (look what we have had to do with all the Max Payne Vista sounds problems.

Your "real data" is a bit vague, since it takes in to account all the corporate purchases of Vista. The majority of these cases are the result of the IT department trying to keep up with the IT world, and are really not necessary to running a business. I run both XP and Vista at my workplace, and I find it so much easier to work with XP - there is less bloat to the overall program.
Steam Hardware surveys are the most reliable source of statistics for gamers, as they take in to account the entire sample size of Steam gamers. All of these other surveys simply take sample sizes and extrapolate from there.
e.g. StatCounter
Stats are based on aggregate data collected by StatCounter on a sample exceeding 4 billion pageviews per month collected from across the StatCounter network of more than 3 million websites

[jester131]

I never used Vista before and installed the Windows 7 RC1 a few days ago. It feels a bit uncomfortable because I'm so used to work with XP. So I'll defenitely stick to XP until Alan Wake comes out.

[___]

I do hope they come out with an XP version, or at least a patch for XP. Even though XP is considered obsolete by a few of you, I find that I gain 10 FPS in many intensive games like Crysis using XP.

Those of you that claim that a mere 25-30% FPS gain in games, is nothing, you are flat out wrong. Going from 23 FPS to 30 FPS makes a world of difference in most games.

This is only my view on the subject, if you have a good enough GPU in your computer to use DX10 efficently, then stick with it. For the rest of us that don't have a GPU that costs over $300, then stick with XP.

[jester131]

This is only my view on the subject, if you have a good enough GPU in your computer to use DX10 efficently, then stick with it. For the rest of us that don't have a GPU that costs over $300, then stick with XP.

You can get a quite good GPU for only 140€ too. It depends on what you expect from it, if you always want the best quality (AA+AF) or if you use it with a 24 inch monitor. I still have a 19 inch monitor so GTA 4 or Crysis run smooth on my system (phenom II 940, ati 4850, 4gb ram).

[jay2]

I will be very peed of if DX 10 is not in A.W that's the only reason I can think of to let be an Vista exclusive.

[HuGi]

Problem? Whose? FYI check this link: http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/. T
I think this pretty much tells the truth about today's situation with operating systems:most of the people still prefer XP over Vista and Win7 because Xp is a lot better. Right?



Are kidding or serious ?

LOL

Im running Windows 7 RC1 and its the best SO right there , XP is dead ... Windows 7 is the best and dont even try to say its not because this is a FACT not a Opinion...

Vista was terrible but Win7 dude it Flawless and its a RC...

People only have XP because its way more popular but when WIN7 cames out and got lower cost or people start hacking it will be even bigger than XP...

XP is dead in quality , WIN7 raises the bar , if u say "no" ur a dumb...Sorry...im not trying to be rude but get the facts ...

[Piiska]

I'm always serious when I post something here so..

Interesting that if XP is dead why almost 60% of Steam users still have it as their primary OS?

Your last comment is just so random that I don't even dare to replay to it but I would really like to see those "facts".

After all it's everyone's own opinion whether XP/Vista or Win7 is the best OS so it's useless to argue about it. I'm tired of arguing about this so please don't mind to reply to my post plz!


XP is dead in quality
:dDDDDDDD

[sotka]

Piiska, your logic doesn't really work. If 60% of people uses XP, does that mean that they think it is the best OS availabe? If you really think so, then please think about the browser statistics - how much IE is used. Do you get the point I'm saying?

Also Piiska, you remember me much of those Windows 98 fanboys a few years ago... How it was the best Windows and how angry they were when games/software didn't support it anymore "even though everything could have worked in it". If you take a look of Win98 now, nobody would start to use it now even if it supported newer software/games. Why? Because they moved on to new software, and I bet they are just as happy as they were in Win98 times, they just won't admit it.

And if you look at XP now, it is an OS from 2001. It is getting so old that you would have to move on to a newer OS soon anyway, as little by little, software and games aren't going to work in it anymore. DX10 is a good example of this. 64-bit software is the next step, as XP doesn't support more than 4GB of total memory.

Also, you said you get worse FPS with 7 than XP. I have had an opposite kind of experience, my FPS has raised, for instance, in CoD4. It has also been proved that in reality, Vista, XP and 7 are just as fast in every game - of course, small fluctuations may happen. Your 25% FPS difference sounds a bit exaggerated and also settings (not only in game, but in Windows) affect your FPS a lot, so those may have some effect.

Why did I even bother to write a this long post? Oh well, just don't bother replying me because I'm not going to answer (best argument of winning ever, btw ;))

[Piiska]

Hehe here's my answer anyways :p

Piiska, your logic doesn't really work. If 60% of people uses XP, does that mean that they think it is the best OS availabe? If you really think so, then please think about the browser statistics - how much IE is used. Do you get the point I'm saying?

Well if the 60% of people use XP instead of other OSs most of them probably think it's better than any other OS. Of course there are some who use it against their own will or simply because they don't have any other choice.

Also Piiska, you remember me much of those Windows 98 fanboys a few years ago... How it was the best Windows and how angry they were when games/software didn't support it anymore "even though everything could have worked in it". If you take a look of Win98 now, nobody would start to use it now even if it supported newer software/games. Why? Because they moved on to new software, and I bet they are just as happy as they were in Win98 times, they just won't admit it.
And I don't have any problems admitting that eg. Win7 and Vista are better than XP but to me they are not. Maybe and most likely in the future I will admit that there are better OSs than XP but I'm not going to do it yet.

Also, you said you get worse FPS with 7 than XP. I have had an opposite kind of experience, my FPS has raised, for instance, in CoD4. It has also been proved that in reality, Vista, XP and 7 are just as fast in every game - of course, small fluctuations may happen. Your 25% FPS difference sounds a bit exaggerated and also settings (not only in game, but in Windows) affect your FPS a lot, so those may have some effect.

Again this is very much user-dependent. To be honest every game I've tried works better with XP, be it only like a couple of fps' more. And also with better detail levels.

Your 25% FPS difference..
I've really tried to search for this number from my posts but I still don't find it. Maybe you confuse me with someone else?

[HuGi]

60%...here...60%...there...

Who cares...Win7 >>>> XP...Xp is dead in quality by Win7.

[moldy_tomato]

Well if the 60% of people use XP instead of other OSs most of them probably think it's better than any other OS. Of course there are some who use it against their own will or simply because they don't have any other choice.

No, I don't think most of the XP users even cares about what OS they use as long it works.

[Darkness62]

From a gamer's point of view - XP is better. I have far less compatibility issues with old games (look what we have had to do with all the Max Payne Vista sounds problems.


Really? I am a gamer and in no way is XP better than Vista or Win 7. How can DX9 even compare to DX10 and DX11? Are you sure you are a gamer? :giggle:

As for Piiska (http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z245/The_Darkness62/Various%20Pics/XPFanbois.png) he doesn't even have an argument, the steady decline of XP eludes him. Of course it would be slower, XP was on the stage to long, makes it more difficult to transition especially for novice users, but he doesn't understand that. The fact that XP use drops dramatically on week-ends just confuses Piiska (http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z245/The_Darkness62/Various%20Pics/XPFuture.jpg).

Then he shoots himself in the foot and crumbles what "argument" he had to dust. With this statement:


And I don't have any problems admitting that eg. Win7 and Vista are better than XP but to me they are not. Maybe and most likely in the future I will admit that there are better OSs than XP but I'm not going to do it yet.


I use the term argument loosely as really all he has is opinion not based in any experience or fact.

Just ignore this XP Fanboi... Looks like Remedy is... ROFL :lmao:

[sdrawkcab]

Piiska, this is not up for argument my friend. This has nothing to do with an "opinion" as to which OS is better. Sometimes, one OS may be better for a particular task, but to say XP is better in general, and actually mean it...something is very wrong with you my friend.

What you need to do, is look at the comparisons side by side. Look at XP, then look at Win 7. Look at what they can do, and what they can't. What their features are and what they lack. Look at how well one OS can do something over another OS. And if you were to look at these things, you will see that Win 7 takes the win. Vista even takes the win over XP currently.

I don't mind if you said that you prefer to use XP because you're more accustomed to it and it's your comfort zone. That's okay. You have that right. That is an opinion that cannot be argued. But, when you sit there and spew rubbish like "XP is better"...you deserve to be slapped in the mouth with some hard facts.

[sidetwo]

This whole battle really reminds me of the 98 -> XP switch for gamers.. now people love XP and won't switch to Windows 7/Vista.

Then people will love Windows 7 and won't switch to XXXXXXX.

You get the idea.

[Balthier]

I want to build a new comp. now. I know Remedy said it was Vista exclusive, but that was then and this is now. Vista flopped and 7 is coming in to mop up the mess. I want to get 7 but I don't want to wait for it to come out to build my computer. If Remedy confirms that they'll give XP support then I can just build my computer now and install XP without worries.

So just tell us whether it'll have XP support or not =(, and please other posters don't turn this topic into a XP-hate fest. I don't have a problem upgrading, but XP is great and I don't want to upgrade if I don't have to, especially since 7 will probably have problems of it's own for 6 months in the beginning, or maybe it'll flop and something else will come in like for Vista who knows.

So yea point is can Remedy give a current, final answer on this? I'm sure if it did support XP they would've been developing for that for a long time now, meaning I can't really believe them if they say they're not sure or don't know after all the game is coming in spring apparently.

windows vista was such a huge waste of time and money really, and so far windows 7 looks no different, the really question here is why try to abuse people into buying something they dont need? this goes for both microsoft and remedy, windows xp was awesome, microsoft hasnt't made a decent OS since windows 98 and now they try to replace xp with garbage like vista and windows 7? pathetic to say the least.

windows xp was fine, if it ain't broke, why fix it? stupid really.

[shwhjw]

windows xp was awesome, microsoft hasnt't made a decent OS since windows 98

?

i'm running Vista here, sure, there are a few things that i'd prefer to use XP for, but on the whole i prefer Vista. I've yet to try Win7, but i'll be getting that when it comes out, going by all the positive reviews.

[Dennis]

I´m really satisfied with the Windows 7 RC.
And if the final product will not cost that much I´ll buy it for sure...

[reprec]

and so far windows 7 looks no different

Balthier, before talking s**t about something, try it first, please.

[Piiska]

60%...here...60%...there...
Who cares...Win7 >>>> XP...Xp is dead in quality by Win7.
I still want to see those "facts" you mentioned. Or don't you find them anymore? And what do you mean by "dead in quality"?

Really? I am a gamer and in no way is XP better than Vista or Win 7. How can DX9 even compare to DX10 and DX11? Are you sure you are a gamer?

So what you are comparing is DX9 to DX10&11. Is that what makes Vista/Win7 better than XP? Is that all that really matters? What about compability issues with older games which Morry mentioned?


I find it funny that during this conversation you simply can't stand the fact that someone thinks that XP is actually better than your "Mighty Windows 7". You become so angry that you do everything you can to provoke and diss me. You really are one of the most pathetic persons I've ever met. Could you even try to discuss properly without insulting and calling me names?

And next time when you call me names come up with something else than "XP fanboi". It really is an old joke ;)

I use the term argument loosely as really all he has is opinion not based in any experience or fact.
God you're stubborn. How many times do I have to tell you that I've tried all of the OSs above? Win7 "F-A-N-B-O-I"?!

But, when you sit there and spew rubbish like "XP is better"...you deserve to be slapped in the mouth with some hard facts.
So my opinion is like rubbish. Is that what you're trying to say?
Piiska, this is not up for argument my friend. This has nothing to do with an "opinion" as to which OS is better. Sometimes, one OS may be better for a particular task, but to say XP is better in general, and actually mean it...something is very wrong with you my friend.

What you need to do, is look at the comparisons side by side. Look at XP, then look at Win 7. Look at what they can do, and what they can't. What their features are and what they lack. Look at how well one OS can do something over another OS. And if you were to look at these things, you will see that Win 7 takes the win. Vista even takes the win over XP currently.

I don't mind if you said that you prefer to use XP because you're more accustomed to it and it's your comfort zone. That's okay. You have that right. That is an opinion that cannot be argued. But, when you sit there and spew rubbish like "XP is better"...you deserve to be slapped in the mouth with some hard facts.
It it my opinion for gods sake. How can you say that my opinion is wrong? Pure facts just don't tell the whole truth.

[HuGi]

Dude get the FACTS.

Windows 7 is better than XP in Everything , you can perfer XP but that doesnt means that Windows 7 isnt better because Win 7 >>>>>> XP.

[accel99]

Dude get the FACTS.

Windows 7 is better than XP in Everything , you can perfer XP but that doesnt means that Windows 7 isnt better because Win 7 >>>>>> XP.

Yo HuGi,Is Windows 7 really that good?I got xp and since i got over 4 gb ram it doesnt read the 1 gb.So i was thinking of upgrading and I was wondering if I should wait for Windows 7 .Its not sluggish and slow?

[Piiska]

Dude get the FACTS.

Windows 7 is better than XP in Everything , you can perfer XP but that doesnt means that Windows 7 isnt better because Win 7 >>>>>> XP.
Could you please show me those facts instead of shouting "Dude get the FACTS" all the time?

Yeah and vice versa for your second comment: even if you prefer Win7 to XP it doesn't mean that it really is better than XP;it's your own opinion and I appreciate it.

[northernlights]

accel99, you can try Win7 right now, the RC is free to use until June next year. You can install it beside your current XP, so you have nothing to lose.

You might even be able to play AW with a free Win7 :)

[accel99]

accel99, you can try Win7 right now, the RC is free to use until June next year. You can install it beside your current XP, so you have nothing to lose.

You might even be able to play AW with a free Win7 :)


This is from the site though:

#

Installation: You can install the Windows 7 RC on a PC running Windows Vista without backing up the PC—but we encourage you to make a backup for safe keeping. If you're running Windows XP or the Windows 7 Beta, you'll need to backup your data, then do a clean installation of the RC, then reinstall your applications and restore your data. If you need to do a backup, please see How to back up your PC for more details and a suggestion for how to backup a PC running Windows 7 Beta or Windows Vista.

[northernlights]

Yeah, but they're only talking about one partition. If you're not familiar with partitions, read this: http://lifehacker.com/5126781/how-to-dual-boot-windows-7-with-xp-or-vista

For partitioning, I can recommend this: http://www.partition-tool.com/personal.htm

Worked without any problems for me, even when Vista was giving errors with it's own partitioning tool.

Try it, it's really easy with no risks (if you do everything correctly, that is) :)

[accel99]

Yeah, but they're only talking about one partition. If you're not familiar with partitions, read this: http://lifehacker.com/5126781/how-to-dual-boot-windows-7-with-xp-or-vista

For partitioning, I can recommend this: http://www.partition-tool.com/personal.htm

Worked without any problems for me, even when Vista was giving errors with it's own partitioning tool.

Try it, it's really easy with no risks (if you do everything correctly, that is) :)

Yea iam familiar with them,I used to kinda try linux(till I decided command prompt or whatever is called isnt for me).But iam far to lazy.Meh ill just wait till I buy it then.

[northernlights]

It would literally take just a few minutes, but suit yourself :D

[Darkness62]

I still want to see those "facts" you mentioned. Or don't you find them anymore? And what do you mean by "dead in quality"?


Here's some facts for you Piiska

This is with the beta Windows 7 or later builds, there is not even adequate driver support from Nvidia/ATi yet for Windows 7.

Build 6956 VS XP SP3 and Vista SP1:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=3187

XP vs Vista vs Windows 7 various builds only deals with install times:
http://www.ithinkdiff.com/windows-7-build-7057-vs-vista-xp-and-older-7-builds/

This is the Beta of Windows 7:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/windows_7_gaming_performance/default.asp
http://xtreview.com/addcomment-id-7264-view-Windows-7-vs-Windows-Xp-review.html

This is supposedly the Windows 7 RC 1, I get different results on Far Cry 2 Vista SP1 20 to 25 FPS, Windows 7 RC 1 30 all the way to 60 FPS!?!?!! I didn't believe it either. The Street Fighter IV benchmark tool resulted in a full grade higher from Vista SP 2 to Windows 7 RC 1, I will post a video on Youtube once I get around to finishing it, we are deploying new Desktops and Laptops for the summer so I have been running around like mad.

They couldn't even get the XP 64bit version to run stable to test it so it is not included in the results. XP is capped at 4 gigs of RAM anyway so who cares? (oops another hint of the advantages of Vista/Win 7 over XP):
http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/gaming-smackdown-windows-xp-vs-windows-vista-vs-windows-7-604178?artc_pg=1

DX10 and beyond:
http://keznews.com/989_Microsoft_DirectX_10___the_Future_of_Gaming
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Forget-Vista-SP1-and-DirectX-10-1-Windows-7-Is-the-Next-Generation-Gaming-Platform-78974.shtml

The competition between AMD and Nvidia is going to get interesting:
http://www.maximumpc.com/tags/dx11
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/12508/nvidia_adds_five_more_40nm_mobile_gpus/index.html
http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2008/10/ati-dx11-40nm-gpus-on-track-for-a-2009-launch.ars

DX11 ATi GPU and demo of DX11 and tessellation in action:
http://techreport.com/discussions.x/17017

Developing with DX11:
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/11981/dx11_easy_to_work_with_for_game_devs/index.html

Advice for corporations IT departments moving from either XP to Vista or Windows 7:
http://mediaproducts.gartner.com/reprints/microsoft/vol5/article3/article3.html
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/window-on-windows/?p=1259

The IT department I am a part of is currently in this discussion. The higher ups are leaning toward skipping Windows Vista, due to Windows 7 virtual XP to transition older software which will be easier on the clients.

So what you are comparing is DX9 to DX10&11. Is that what makes Vista/Win7 better than XP? Is that all that really matters? What about compability issues with older games which Morry mentioned?


If that is all you know as the differences between XP, Vista and Windows 7 you are even more of a novice than I first suspected. I am no longer in tech support explaining things to amateur shlubs like you is no longer my job. I am sure you can find answers on google, I hope it works on whatever backward planet you are from. Given your posts I will assume the answer is no so I will link google's home page for you here (http://www.google.com)(here's a hint start with security).

So my opinion is like rubbish. Is that what you're trying to say?

It it my opinion for gods sake. How can you say that my opinion is wrong?

You were passing your opinion Pliiska as fact, that clearly got everyone riled up. Despite what you may believe about yourself, your opinion is not fact. In reality a novices opinion based on zero experience means less than nothing.

Pure facts just don't tell the whole truth.

This incredibly stupid statement had me actually WTF out loud at work, incidentally what attracted the attention of other IT professionals in the office. It's clear Piiska you have no interest in facts, as you have never shown any to back up your claims and in fact have now flip flopped and stated it is only opinion now rather than a blanket statement provided for your rapidly dwindling 60% of gamers. Actually 58.57%, given your concern for one or two FPS I figured you would have picked up on that, guess it doesn't count for statistics Piiska? Kind of like a politician sans the intelligence... Wait a minute WTF!?!?!! George W. Bush is that you? Oh well lack of evidence, misinterpreted data and outright lies have become the staple of Xp Fanbois such as yourself. Do some reading, maybe you will learn something, I doubt it, but it's worth a shot. :lmao:

[Valhalla]

Yo HuGi,Is Windows 7 really that good?I got xp and since i got over 4 gb ram it doesnt read the 1 gb.So i was thinking of upgrading and I was wondering if I should wait for Windows 7 .Its not sluggish and slow?

This is not a XP issue. It is a 32bit windows vs 64 bit windows issue.

32 bit windows (32 bit xp, vista, or 7) will only be able to read up to 3GB of ram. If you want to have more than 3GB recognized you need a 64 bit version of windows. And there is 64 bit XP and Vista...and i am sure 7 will have 64 bit support too.

[accel99]

This is not a XP issue. It is a 32bit windows vs 64 bit windows issue.

32 bit windows (32 bit xp, vista, or 7) will only be able to read up to 3GB of ram. If you want to have more than 3GB recognized you need a 64 bit version of windows. And there is 64 bit XP and Vista...and i am sure 7 will have 64 bit support too.
I know that too.But I didnt feel the need to move to 64bit xp or vista.Especially since I like foreign mmo,and sometimes they have issues with 64bit os.But I think now(or whenever windows 7 releases) will be the right time to move up to 64 bit.

[northernlights]

I wonder why moderators haven't closed this thread already? It has been off-topic for a good while and some (you know who you are) of the posts contain 50% personal insults. Anyone else agree that this is not something we want to have at these forums?

Not trying to tell anyone how to do their job, just a thought.. :)

[___]

Anyone can find sites to back up what ever statement they want to prove. Both sides could be correct, but that doesn't prove anything. Stop the insults, it only discredits your posts (both of you).

"Can remedy put the windows XP/Vista/7 thing to rest?". They can do this by closing this thread, lol.

[Morry]

Insults contribute NOTHING to this discussion, so just leave them out. If you are going to argue with someone, use facts that you can back up with some good research.

[rainyday]

alan wake will come in pc and xbox360. now xbox360 is mostly DX9 (with a much weaker gpu than modern mainstream DX10 gpu). and only vista and newer windows will have DX10 support. therefore the game engine must support both DX10 and 9. that leaves little reason for the game to be xp incompatible unless its made that way deliberately.

i guess its a Microsoft decision.

[accel99]

alan wake will come in pc and xbox360. now xbox360 is mostly DX9 (with a much weaker gpu than modern mainstream DX10 gpu). and only vista and newer windows will have DX10 support. therefore the game engine must support both DX10 and 9. that leaves little reason for the game to be xp incompatible unless its made that way deliberately.

i guess its a Microsoft decision.

Didnt remedy mention somewhere that even though xbox 360 is not fully dx 10,it has alot of dx10 components and uses those quite extensively.They posted something about that a while back somewhere here.So dont expect it for Dx9

[Morry]

Didnt remedy mention somewhere that even though xbox 360 is not fully dx 10,it has alot of dx10 components and uses those quite extensively.They posted something about that a while back somewhere here.So dont expect it for Dx9
Correct, the 360 was developed at a time when there was a transition from DX9 to DX10, so the console does possess a few DX10 capabilities. In particular, developing on the 360 allows a smoother transition over to Vista, due to the similar coding methods.

[EnixLHQ]

Wooo boy. I leave you guys alone for a few days and this practically degenerates into a flame war. You guys might think we're arguing soccer in here...

Listen, Morry's right. But so am I, and so is Darkness. So are a few others. This isn't an argument over basic black and white features of an OS, but the scope of a gamer's needs overall.

Let me give you an example of why Morry's right:
From a gamer's point of view - XP is better. I have far less compatibility issues with old games (look what we have had to do with all the Max Payne Vista sounds problems.

A small statement, I know, but it captures what he and others who are holding on to XP are trying to say. Nothing can beat XP for compatablility of current and older games.

This is true, guys. There's no doubt. Most games that anyone in our range of ages here are actually interested in still playing were written for XP. And, I hope a game's native platform will offer the best compatibility until the end of time.

Now, here's an example of why I'm right as well:
All, and I mean ALL of the games I have tested and played on this system have performed better on Vista than any of the other OSes. Games such as Deus Ex 1 and 2, Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2, World of Warcraft, Max Payne 2, F.E.A.R. and both expansions, and a few others I can't recall off of the top of my head.

On average, I have noticed a 15% increase in frames per second, and on average a 20% drop in processing usage when playing these games on Vista.

I wrote this in this thread (http://forum.alanwake.com/showthread.php?p=27880#post27880), and it's still true to this moment as the moment I wrote it (arguably better, since I've upgraded a few things since then).

But you have to take this with a grain of salt. I'm a computer builder. I'm a software reverse-engineer. I'm a white hat. I can and have fine-tuned my system to get the best performance out of it that I feel is possible, and my results show that.

However, right out of the box with standard gaming gear Vista would not perform nearly so well and it stands to reason that many older games, or simply games designed for XP, aren't going to be as stable or impressive.

And no, I'm not going to argue the difference between stability and performance. We're focusing on the overall idea.

Lastly, we can both can be correct because when it comes to the games we are playing there are only a few truths we are looking at:

1. A game should, and will, be the most compatible with the native platform it was written for.

2. Any new games that are written specifically for Vista, or Win7, will perform better on those platforms and technologies.

3. There will always be ports, emulators, and tweaks to get games to run on other systems, but at best we can only really guess which games will work best on which systems until newer technologies are proven to make better use of existing codes.

4. And lastly, everything always upgrades eventually. The web itself is moving into version 5, making things like the Ogg format ubiquitous, and allowing media like video to be played directly from the browser without 3rd party apps (Flash, anyone?). We will be moving to IPv6. The iPod and iPhone are now on 3.0 software, surely to move to 3.1 very soon. Yadda yadda, etc, etc.