*Spoiler* Mr. Scratch, the one thing I don't quite understand.

[Survival_Horror]

He wasn't exactly given any purpose in his only scene. He also looked sketchy as hell. It felt to me as if Thomas Zane was scheming behind Wake's back. I'm not going to ask for the reason he's in that scene since it may be something Remedy isn't willing to share. I'm wondering if there is going to be an explanation given in DLC form or if we're going have to wait. It was a fairly minor question that wasn't answered but, I'm curious. More Mr.Scratch soon?

[Chillin]

When Alan Wake isn't present in his body thats what people see.

[Dusk Golem]

Also a little research shows that Mr. Scratch is from the Old Folktale, "Old Scratch and Tom" which Mr. Scratch is also another name for "Devil". In the story from what I remember Mr. Scratch is a demon who parades around in other peoples skin (like in the story he appears as a black man riding a black horse) and tricks people to steal their souls from them.

It's quite evident this folktale provided at least a little inspiration for the game. Mr. Scratch in Alan Wake isn't expanded on too much, but he may very well in the future.

To note, since likely more than coincidentally, Alan Wake's versions of Mr. Scratch and Tom may not serve the same roles as the folktale, as in the tale Mr. Scratch at the end steals Tom's soul and both disappear, but the town is not too concerned since they are used to demons, witchcraft, and monsters.

A little food for thought, there are definitely some similarities between the old folktale and Alan Wake

[Chillin]

Then why does Tom say to not worry about him? You think he would say that about the devil?

[Dusk Golem]

Then why does Tom say to not worry about him? You think he would say that about the devil?

That's the curious part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Scratch

There's the Wikipedia article on Old Scratch aka Mr. Scratch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil_and_Tom_Walker

And the story of The Devil and Tom Walker. I know our Alan Wake counterpart is named Thomas Zaine, but the coincidence the man character's name is Tom is a bit out there, and the devils name is Mr. Scratch.

[Chillin]

That's the curious part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Scratch

There's the Wikipedia article on Old Scratch aka Mr. Scratch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil_and_Tom_Walker

And the story of The Devil and Tom Walker. I know our Alan Wake counterpart is named Thomas Zaine, but the coincidence the man character's name is Tom is a bit out there, and the devils name is Mr. Scratch.

Maybe its just a homage?

[Survival_Horror]

When Alan Wake isn't present in his body thats what people see.

Yeah, the thing is he was introduced late in the game in the well lit room and Alan's out of body experience was caused by the moonshine at the Anderson's place. Alan was able to use the moonshine with the unfiltered lake cauldron water to see what had happened to him in the cabin, and at no point do I think he was ever replaced by Mr. Scratch. The only other time I remember him blacking out was when Barbara used him the week he wrote majority of the manuscript. If you could refresh my memory, because I could be wrong, when was Mr. Scratch used during the game? It was presented in the cutscene like a unrevealed plan that Zane had. I'm curious, so I wonder what the intention of it was. The answer could have just went right over my head. I'm hoping it's something more interesting though.

[Dusk Golem]

The thing that doesn't make sense to me is that Mr. Scratch is supposed to replace Alan in life while Alan is away, yet according to the Alan Wake Files, Nightingale says that no one has heard from Alan since the events in Bright Falls for a year. If that's true then what the hell is Mr. Scratch doing?

[Chillin]

The thing that doesn't make sense to me is that Mr. Scratch is supposed to replace Alan in life while Alan is away, yet according to the Alan Wake Files, Nightingale says that no one has heard from Alan since the events in Bright Falls for a year. If that's true then what the hell is Mr. Scratch doing?

His physical body when Alan Wake is having a vision is Mr. Scratch. It's why his face looks like that. Alan Wake is mentally in another world but his body stays in the current. I think its only a homage Zane being bad would be weird.

[Dusk Golem]

His physical body when Alan Wake is having a vision is Mr. Scratch. It's why his face looks like that. Alan Wake is mentally in another world but his body stays in the current. I think its only a homage Zane being bad would be weird.

I am sure it's a homage with a few nods here and there. But that's not concerning me, since it seems like Alan Wake isn't mentally just in the lake, like he literally is in there.

As I said, according to the Alan Wake Files, no one, not even Alice, has seen Alan for a year after the events of Alan Wake.

Which raises the question, if no one has seen Alan in over a year, then what the hell is Mr. Scratch doing, he's supposed to represent Alan when he's gone right? So how come no one has seen him in a year, what is Mr. Scratch doing?

[Chillin]

I am sure it's a homage with a few nods here and there. But that's not concerning me, since it seems like Alan Wake isn't mentally just in the lake, like he literally is in there.

As I said, according to the Alan Wake Files, no one, not even Alice, has seen Alan for a year after the events of Alan Wake.

Which raises the question, if no one has seen Alan in over a year, then what the hell is Mr. Scratch doing, he's supposed to represent Alan when he's gone right? So how come no one has seen him in a year, what is Mr. Scratch doing?

Mr. Scratch IMO is only there when Alan Wake is mentally in another world. Alan Wake is physically gone so if Alan Wakes body isn't there Mr. Scratch can't be! Sort of like your watching TV with friends BAM! Your floating in the sky with Thomas Zane your friends will see Mr. Scratch, but you are in the other world. All theory though ;)

[Chillin]

But maybe it goes deep then that arg..

[MikkiRMD]

As I said, according to the Alan Wake Files, no one, not even Alice, has seen Alan for a year after the events of Alan Wake.

Which raises the question, if no one has seen Alan in over a year, then what the hell is Mr. Scratch doing, he's supposed to represent Alan when he's gone right? So how come no one has seen him in a year, what is Mr. Scratch doing?

A few points, just because I like to throw gasoline on the flames:

1) Clay Steward's knowledge is certainly not complete. He's not an omniscient narrator.

2) In his afterword, Clay Steward says he saw Wake.

[Dusk Golem]

A few points, just because I like to throw gasoline on the flames:

1) Clay Steward's knowledge is certainly not complete. He's not an omniscient narrator.

2) In his afterword, Clay Steward says he saw Wake.

To shay. Oh following hints~ Still a lot to digest, and I haven't heard the developer commentary but want to so guess we'll see down the road what more is to come, DLC is just 67 or so days away. -3-

[Survival_Horror]

Mr. Scratch IMO is only there when Alan Wake is mentally in another world. Alan Wake is physically gone so if Alan Wakes body isn't there Mr. Scratch can't be! Sort of like your watching TV with friends BAM! Your floating in the sky with Thomas Zane your friends will see Mr. Scratch, but you are in the other world. All theory though ;)

It's pretty sketchy for me to think that wake wasn't in our own reality during any events of the game except the very end. He kept mentioning that what he had written was real and that the dark presence was getting stronger. Our we supposed to assume that none of this is actually happening in our dimension? It's getting a little bit convoluted to me but there really wasn't a point in the game where Alan was mentally out of it except for when he was used to write the manuscript. At which point other than the moonshine dream was Alan doing something that wasn't happening in real life? I was under the impression that the dark presence and thomas zane were crossing over into reality because of Wake not Alan crossing over into theirs. the only portion of the game that causes any confusion was that wake remained in the cabin that didn't exist while alice survived and couldn't find him. Maybe you're right and if they continue the game Mr. Scratch will make an appearance.

[Pauloselhombre]

The thing that doesn't make sense to me is that Mr. Scratch is supposed to replace Alan in life while Alan is away, yet according to the Alan Wake Files, Nightingale says that no one has heard from Alan since the events in Bright Falls for a year. If that's true then what the hell is Mr. Scratch doing?

Yes, but the Alan Wake Files also says that Clay sees and chases Alan down a forest trail, who turns around and smiles at him as if letting him in on a secret. I would assume that this is Mr Scratch carrying out the actions that Alan writes into the story for himself while he's in the cabin. In this case, people may not have seen him (or, in the case of Barry and Sarah, may not be saying anything even if thay have seen him) because he's busy doing important things and can't let Alice know he's around. Of course, it could be that Mr Scratch is created because Tom expects Alan to make his same mistake but then is destroyed or freed to do his own thing when Alan doesn't make the mistake. Kinda like the way the rogue Agent Smith is created in the Matrix when Neo unbalances the code by becoming an anomaly but destroyed when he sacrifices himself, thus 'balancing the equation'.

[Chillin]

It's pretty sketchy for me to think that wake wasn't in our own reality during any events of the game except the very end. He kept mentioning that what he had written was real and that the dark presence was getting stronger. Our we supposed to assume that none of this is actually happening in our dimension? It's getting a little bit convoluted to me but there really wasn't a point in the game where Alan was mentally out of it except for when he was used to write the manuscript. At which point other than the moonshine dream was Alan doing something that wasn't happening in real life? I was under the impression that the dark presence and thomas zane were crossing over into reality because of Wake not Alan crossing over into theirs. the only portion of the game that causes any confusion was that wake remained in the cabin that didn't exist while alice survived and couldn't find him. Maybe you're right and if they continue the game Mr. Scratch will make an appearance. The story will have either 1 or 2 parts. I highly doubt they will make it more complicated then that. Either in the Alan Wake world everything you have seen is how it happens in the world or the Alan Wake world isn't real and Alan is dreaming of it or something. So using this theory you have to think that they are going to make the Alan Wake world as realistic (as if Alan Wake isn't crazy or dreaming) as possible. If you add too much it gets way too complicated. And your right about Alan Wake not seeming crazy. They do this because regardless of the end result they want it to seem realistic. This is part of the reason I believe that Zane is good and that Mr. Scratch is just Alan Wake when hes having a vision. Alan Wake doesn't go to sleep when he has a vision he mentally goes to another world so its just his dormant self.

[celicynd]

It's funny... all I could think of during the Mr. Scratch scene, was the look on the "doppleganger" Alan's face reminded me of the doppleganger Agent Cooper in Twin Peaks. "How's Annie?!"

[whoiscraig]

This may be a stupid question, but who is Mr. Scratch?
I've finished the game, and even got every achievement, but for the life of I me I can't work out who you're all talking about! :(

[edit]
Okay, I rewatched the Ep6 cinimatics and I know what you're talking about now. I have no idea how I missed that the first time :o

And yeah, it did appear to be a bit sinister...

[Kahr]

I'm thinking Mr. Scratch as something along the lines of the very last scene of Twin Peaks. Remember Agent Cooper? Looking in the mirror?

Edit: Just like celicynd said two posts before me. :p

[celicynd]

I'm thinking Mr. Scratch as something along the lines of the very last scene of Twin Peaks. Remember Agent Cooper? Looking in the mirror?

Hey! Stop copying my idea from two post ago! :p

[Kahr]

Hey! Stop copying my idea from two post ago! :p
Haha, sorry. I was typing way faster than I was reading the stuff. I've recently been watching Twin Peaks and it suddenly appeared to me. :lol:

Editing in a notice about you in my original post. ;)

[Danzaiver]

I guess Alan Wake 2 story is going to be really interesting, so many mysteries I hope we have them solved on the sequel.

Also why Zane has like god like powers? And he can talk to the devil and stuff :lol:

[MikkiRMD]

And he can talk to the devil and stuff :lol:

Wait, what? =)

[Kahr]

Yeah, I was curious about that too...

Talk to the devil!? :eek:

[whoiscraig]

Perhaps Mr. Scratch never really existed. It was just a way for Thomas Zane to reassure Alan Wake that his friends and loved ones wouldn't miss him too much. But maybe Zane had no intention of releasing Mr. Scratch into the world. It was purely to help get Alan into the cabin and write the ending of the book.

[Danzaiver]

Wait, what? =)

Mr Scratch I think, I read at Wiki that he is the devil :lol:

[Hukka55]

I believe the whole story is just a dream. Or maybe it wasn't, but that is what Alan wrote it to be, he wrote that it was just a dream and he will wake up in the car, just about to arrive to Bright Falls.
But the reality where the Darkness already was unleashed, but then beaten, has now branched off and must continue on its path. Meaning that Mr.Scratch will replace Alan in that reality of the book "Departure". Thus giving logic to Alices line about looking into Alans eyes, but it's like he's not there, that it's someone else looking out from his eyes.

How about this: Wake needs to correct everything. So he writes Zane to help him, and he writes himself into the story. Now Zane is also back in a sense, and as a creator he can also start creating. Now you have two creating forces (Wake and Zane) working, but seemingly not together, but both to their own ends.
So Mr.Scratch is Zanes doing and Alan hasn't got a clue what he is for.

What will happen next?

Also consider the possibility that the game begins with "Alan, wake up", and ends with the exact same thing.

So maybe Alan wrote everything ok, but as in the episode of Night Springs "Quantum Suicide", the other reality had already branched off. It is from the first reality, where the darkness was unleashed but then beaten that we saw Alice get out of the lake and call for Alan, who now is not there.
The other reality, one that Wake wrote to stop the darkness from happening and correct everything, is just branching off, starting again from the Wakes arriving to Bright Falls. Thus "Alan, wake up". :)
This would also explain the part where Wake says that the scales need to balance. One reality where Wake is gone, one reality where everything is fine.
Its a very sad story, if this is true.

Buuuut.. what about the last thing Wake says, the line that links to the poem Zane tells him in the intro. What does it mean?
"It's not a lake.. it's an ocean."

He says it in a very odd way, as if very determined, or possessed.. ;)


REMEDY, pls at some point of the game, maybe through an achievement Unlock the truth. Give us YOUR manuscript for the game, so we can finally understand what really happened. :)

[AnttiApina]

Mr Scratch I think, I read at Wiki that he is the devil :lol:

Who edits those pages?

[Tom 44]

I don't think Mr. Scratch is acting out the things Alan writes. Here's why.

Alan wrote the story except the end and then inserted himself in the story and his escape. So to get out he had to act out the events of the story. Why would Mr. Scratch act it out if ALAN is the main character. Alan said he made HIMSELF the main character, not Mr. Scratch. Plus, Alan would know who he is if he wrote him into the story right? I had another reason but i forgot:rolleyes:.

[BxB402]

Mr. Scratch having the cut on his head from the car crash and Alan being unharmed may be a big clue.

[Dreb]

I'm pretty sure Alan has the cut in his forehead in that scene aswell. Watch closely.

[Celeste]

I was all for the "you play as Mr. Scratch" theory, starting from the car crash (because it made so much sense that his "amnesia" was really him "starting from scratch") until I re-watched the cutscene where he appears. When he does, the "copy" is made from Alan with the bandage on his forehead. Not just the cut, but the bandage. Why would he have a bandage from the point when he "escapes" the cabin, if the split is from that point (especially since he has no cut or bandage on the TV). And also, in this same scene, Zane tells him to use the Clicker. That comes much later in the narrative than the beginning of the gameplay (car crash etc.), so this can't really be just a displaced scene from the timeline.

Additionally, he has the bandage in every instance from the point where we see him receive it. Whether it's the "original" Alan or "Mr. Scratch" that we play as doesn't really matter — every time we see him, either in the main gameplay, in the cabin, when he's copied, in the dark place, when he uses the Clicker on Barbara, and at the very end after he supposedly sacrifices himself, he has the bandage on. So the bandage is not really a helpful tool in distinguishing Alan from Mr. Scratch, unfortunately.

If we do play as Mr. Scratch at any point, I'm unclear as to when he would come in, as it would have to be some point after he gets the bandage, unless he's simply "cloned" with the bandage and then "regressed" back to before he got it, but then in that case, why was he cloned with a bandage to begin with, since the Alan he was cloned from was the one we were playing with that WAS in the accident and therefore received the bandage?

I'm also not entirely on board with the theory of Mr. Scratch is just there to pretend to be Alan after Alice is saved, although I'm not wholly opposed to it either. It would explain the final "Alan, wake up," since she could have found Mr. Scratch's body near the lake, having ostensibly saved her, and be trying to resuscitate him. Hm. I guess based on that, and the fact that Steward sees him later, it does make sense, but maybe I'm just not crazy about the idea so I don't want to believe it. =)

Side note: I don't think Mr. Scratch is evil based on anything we actually witness in the game. I think the "Old Scratch" reference, if anything, refers to the Faustian bargain Alan is having to make with the Dark Presence to save Alice. The "creepy smile" is just his innocence, which comes across as creepy in contrast to Alan's self-awareness (especially with what he's dealing with), and since he's an adult and all it seems really weird to see him smiling that way in that situation. The only thing that makes me think he could be evil is the Night Springs episode about the Man in the Mirror, because while I refer to Alan being "copied" or "cloned" above, the cutscene portrays it as Alan looking at himself in the mirror (hands reaching to each other, etc.), and I think the "Man in the Mirror" is similar enough in theme to possibly not be coincidental, though it's not necessary for them to have the same "twist ending." However, Alan and Mr. Scratch are not mirror images in the traditional sense — the bandages are not switched to the opposite side of the face, etc. I think it's more a figurative mirror image than a literal one.

[Vegan]

At the beginning of the game we can see a "Have you seen this man?" pamphlet with Alan Wake's face, and, inside the game's guide, you can see that papercut clearly and states:

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/5122/fotodelda19052010alas22.jpg

"Accomplished writer Alan Wake has been missing for the las two weeks, and his wife and family are sick with worry. He was las spotted along highway 509, and may have been heading toward the souther Cauldron Lake cliffs. Alan is an accomplished but amateur outodoorsman. There is a $10.000 reward for information leading to the safe rescue of Mr. Wake.

He is 5 foot 11 inches tall, with brown eyes and dark brown hair. He was last seen wearing a gray sporting jacket with hood, black jeans, and brown boots. He is likely to be carrying a flashlight and armed with a revolver. If you have any information, or can wake him up, please contact Sheriff Sara Breaker in Bright Falls immediately"

So, he's been missing two weeks, Sheriff Breaker, Alice and Barry are still looking for him... quite interesting, huh? :)

[Tom 44]

At the beginning of the game we can see a "Have you seen this man?" pamphlet with Alan Wake's face, and, inside the game's guide, you can see that papercut clearly and states:

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/5122/fotodelda19052010alas22.jpg

"Accomplished writer Alan Wake has been missing for the las two weeks, and his wife and family are sick with worry. He was las spotted along highway 509, and may have been heading toward the souther Cauldron Lake cliffs. Alan is an accomplished but amateur outodoorsman. There is a $10.000 reward for information leading to the safe rescue of Mr. Wake.

He is 5 foot 11 inches tall, with brown eyes and dark brown hair. He was last seen wearing a gray sporting jacket with hood, black jeans, and brown boots. He is likely to be carrying a flashlight and armed with a revolver. If you have any information, or can wake him up, please contact Sheriff Sara Breaker in Bright Falls immediately"

So, he's been missing two weeks, Sheriff Breaker, Alice and Barry are still looking for him... quite interesting, huh? :)

Or can wake him up???? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN???????:confused:

[Celeste]

Huh, very interesting to be able to read the text from the poster. Thanks for typing that up!

AFAIK, it only appears in the initial nightmare sequence — correct? So the "if you can wake him up" part fits with that, but what about the references to Cauldron Lake and Sheriff Breaker? Alan shouldn't know who they are at that point, so the only explanations are either than Zane threw them in (though I shouldn't think he'd expect Alan to actually stop and read a poster like that while fighting for his life in the dream realm) or, more likely, those details were added by the collective subconscious of the dream realm due to the "magic" of Cauldron Lake. Remember that Alan, Clay, and possibly others are able to share dreams that take place in Bright Falls, a place neither of them has been and Clay is not even aware of prior to dreaming of it.

I don't think the missing poster really proves anything one way or the other about Mr. Scratch, although I admit it's intriguing that he's been missing two weeks (instead of any other span of time) — but it could easily be a coincidence, although I suppose it's possible it implies some kind of time loop.

Interesting it specifies brown eyes, though. His eyes do look brown in many of the wide shots, but they always look green in closeups (waking up, etc.) and they're clearly green here: http://download.gameblog.fr/images/jeux/337/AlanWake_MakingOf_002.jpg

[Tom 44]

Huh, very interesting to be able to read the text from the poster. Thanks for typing that up!

AFAIK, it only appears in the initial nightmare sequence — correct? So the "if you can wake him up" part fits with that, but what about the references to Cauldron Lake and Sheriff Breaker? Alan shouldn't know who they are at that point, so the only explanations are either than Zane threw them in (though I shouldn't think he'd expect Alan to actually stop and read a poster like that while fighting for his life in the dream realm) or, more likely, those details were added by the collective subconscious of the dream realm due to the "magic" of Cauldron Lake. Remember that Alan, Clay, and possibly others are able to share dreams that take place in Bright Falls, a place neither of them has been and Clay is not even aware of prior to dreaming of it.

I don't think the missing poster really proves anything one way or the other about Mr. Scratch, although I admit it's intriguing that he's been missing two weeks (instead of any other span of time) — but it could easily be a coincidence, although I suppose it's possible it implies some kind of time loop.

Interesting it specifies brown eyes, though. His eyes do look brown in many of the wide shots, but they always look green in closeups (waking up, etc.) and they're clearly green here: http://download.gameblog.fr/images/jeux/337/AlanWake_MakingOf_002.jpg

Is that the in-game model?

[Celeste]

Is that the in-game model?

I think so. I got it from GameBlog.fr (http://www.gameblog.fr/jeu_337_alan-wake), where they have a bunch of behind-the-scenes photos. My French is a little rusty and I haven't actually investigated all this fully, though, so I'm not positive this is the exact model from the game. Pretty sure it is though since everything else looks the same.

[Toshi]

Or can wake him up???? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN???????:confused:

Well it was in his dream sequence, no? :rolleyes:

[BxB402]

Interesting it specifies brown eyes, though. His eyes do look brown in many of the wide shots, but they always look green in closeups (waking up, etc.) and they're clearly green here: http://download.gameblog.fr/images/jeux/337/AlanWake_MakingOf_002.jpg

That's Hazel, not green. Greenish brown. Alan's are probably hazel in everything, that's why sometimes they look brown and sometimes green.

[Injured]

A) I was fairly certain Clay Steward states that Alice is still missing, that Wanted sign is in his dream sequence, and many references and peculiar stuff is in the Dream Sequence: for instance Clay Steward is one.

B) Mr. Scratch does not necessarily be evil, it could just be a joke that he is "Made from scratch", a figment of the imagination brought to life by the lake via the Writer.

C) And obviously as stated before and numerous times in the Alan Wake Ending Theories thread, people argue whether or not Thomas Zane is "good". What strikes me as odd in the first Episode, in the dream, Thomas Zane over emphasizes that the Hitchhiker is taken and he is your enemy - that he must be killed - and not be saved. Which just irks me, personally.

[ladyrane]

There are two other times we see Mr. Scratch.

1. When Alan is running up on Mott at Mirror Peak, just before Mott is sucked into the tornado. Mott is already pleading with Alan and he sounds scared out of his mind. Yet you, playing as Alan, are running up the trail calling that you're there. The whole confession comes out before you get there, and for a second, you see a 2nd Alan. Then all Hell breaks loose.

2. When Hartman gets shut into his office, you see "Alan" diving with Mr. Scratch's insane little grin on his face. It could be Scratch sealed him in, not Alan. Because Alan never has that expression on his face again. The expression seems to match the one spoken of in the files. It also matches the expression on Scratch's face when Alan meets him face to face for the first time.

Scratch is certainly nothing good. The look on his face alone told me that, even without the references to the Devil.

[Ed321]

There are two other times we see Mr. Scratch.

1. When Alan is running up on Mott at Mirror Peak, just before Mott is sucked into the tornado. Mott is already pleading with Alan and he sounds scared out of his mind. Yet you, playing as Alan, are running up the trail calling that you're there. The whole confession comes out before you get there, and for a second, you see a 2nd Alan. Then all Hell breaks loose.

2. When Hartman gets shut into his office, you see "Alan" diving with Mr. Scratch's insane little grin on his face. It could be Scratch sealed him in, not Alan. Because Alan never has that expression on his face again. The expression seems to match the one spoken of in the files. It also matches the expression on Scratch's face when Alan meets him face to face for the first time.

Scratch is certainly nothing good. The look on his face alone told me that, even without the references to the Devil.

Woah, I never noticed either of these! I thought the first time I saw Scratch was in the cutscene where he's formally introduced to Alan (putting aside "Scratch is always Alan" theories etc.). I'll need to re-roll my PE score :lol:

I'd always been confused by that scene with Mott pleading atop the cliff. At first I thought it actually the Dark Presence but it didn't make any sense why it would be demanding to know where Alice was :p I'll go back and rewatch that scene to see if I can spot Mr. Scratch/Dark Alan this time. Thanks for the tip :)

[Crrash]

i just supposed that since Alan is in the cabin, that we'd play mr. scratch in the DLC

[Ed321]

i just supposed that since Alan is in the cabin, that we'd play mr. scratch in the DLC

I dunno, assuming Scratch has a darker personality than Alan, he'll probably shirk his duties and just run off to New York to cash in on Wake's celebrity :). I'm not sure the "Mr Scratch gets drunk and trashes Wake's apartment" DLC would fit the tone :p

[Crrash]

aaaw and i was looking forward to it...

well, mr. scratch WILL be around, could just as well be playing a "soulless" Alan Wake. dunno

[Injured]

The last couple of posts all believe Mr. Scratch is evil, maybe Alan Wake made it that Mr. Scratch is his darker side, so while in the cabin and in the Darkness - he will be less suspectible to the Dark Presence?

Personally I believe it was Alan Wake who trapped Hartman in his office with the Dark Presence, the manuscripts kind-of confirm this, and the reason he grinned is that was the first time Alan Wake ever did anything really evil. Wake usually tries to save people, and he knows fighting the Taken is necessary, Wake never really killed a man - and that's the first time he.. well basically did kill a man.

[Tom 44]

Well it was in his dream sequence, no? :rolleyes:

Well, yes. But this would mean that Alan knew of the fact that he was in a dream. For the most part, you don't know your in a dream when your dreaming.:confused: I don't know im just thinking out loud...

[Kaotician]

I think it's significant that Ralph(?) at the trailer park at the beginning of episode 3 describes Mrs Jagger as 'The Scratchy Writer'..........

[Celeste]

I think it's significant that Ralph(?) at the trailer park at the beginning of episode 3 describes Mrs Jagger as 'The Scratchy Writer'..........

Actually, he calls her "Scratching Hag." I think the legend is mentioned in the Alan Wake Files as well as in the Old Gods of Asgard song "Children of the Elder Gods":

Scratching hag, you can rake your claws and gnash your crooked teeth
You've taken slaves like ocean waves, now feel the ocean seethe

I've tried to figure out if the "ocean" from this line is significant. Are the "slaves" the Taken? Someone tried to correlate these lines to Alan's short story from the AWF, but I dunno. I mean, it actually fits pretty well, it just seems like maybe a bit of a stretch to link this song to that story since it also involves a lighthouse..

[Celeste]

There are two other times we see Mr. Scratch.

1. When Alan is running up on Mott at Mirror Peak, just before Mott is sucked into the tornado. Mott is already pleading with Alan and he sounds scared out of his mind. Yet you, playing as Alan, are running up the trail calling that you're there. The whole confession comes out before you get there, and for a second, you see a 2nd Alan. Then all Hell breaks loose.

Do you mean in gameplay or in the cutscene? In the cutscene, if you mean the flash of a person next to Mott when he's on his knees sobbing, that's Barbara. And in the gameplay right before that, if you have the subtitles on, he says something like "Listen lady, we were only playing with him, please don't hurt me" so it definitely seems like he's talking to Barbara at that point. I don't think Mr. Scratch is there at that time.

[thomp]

Also a little research shows that Mr. Scratch is from the Old Folktale, "Old Scratch and Tom" which Mr. Scratch is also another name for "Devil". In the story from what I remember Mr. Scratch is a demon who parades around in other peoples skin (like in the story he appears as a black man riding a black horse) and tricks people to steal their souls from them.


It's quite funny that you mention about him being a black guy on a black horse, as I distinctly remember seeing two paintings in Hartman's office: one was a man dressed in black, on a black horse, and the other paiting was a man dressed in white on a white horse. Hmm....

Also, hey all. Finished Alan Wake today and have enjoyed reading all the theories on here. The ending confused me no end so it's been interesting to see how people are interpreting it. :)

[Ed321]

Do you mean in gameplay or in the cutscene? In the cutscene, if you mean the flash of a person next to Mott when he's on his knees sobbing, that's Barbara. And in the gameplay right before that, if you have the subtitles on, he says something like "Listen lady, we were only playing with him, please don't hurt me" so it definitely seems like he's talking to Barbara at that point. I don't think Mr. Scratch is there at that time.

I thought it was Barbara at first too, but doesn't Mott also babble something along the lines of "we don't know where she is"? It makes no sense for Jagger to be interrogating Mott over Alice's whereabouts. On the LE bonus disc there's an option to view all the cutscenes side-by-side with the storyboards, and the drawing of the dark figure in this scene is extremely vague. I'll have to watch it again and see if it's possible to pause the second he/she appears.

[fakesounding]

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp116/pradacrew/babs.jpg

here's a screengrab i just took from youtube as it was easier than trying to do it from my xbox :)

[Ed321]

Cool, that saves me scrabbling through my disc pile :p In that case, I remain very confused by the dialogue leading up to that scene :(

[Celeste]

Possibly even if she knew they didn't have Alice she might want to know what their plan was, since they were trying to get the manuscript. She might want to know what they knew about the lake, or what they wanted with it or intended to do with it, etc. Just guessing here, though, I think at the time it's intended to be very confusing since we don't know much about the real story at this point and are just finding out that the kidnapper was a red herring.

[Ed321]

Possibly even if she knew they didn't have Alice she might want to know what their plan was, since they were trying to get the manuscript. She might want to know what they knew about the lake, or what they wanted with it or intended to do with it, etc. Just guessing here, though, I think at the time it's intended to be very confusing since we don't know much about the real story at this point and are just finding out that the kidnapper was a red herring.

I suppose that's possible. Maybe it's meant to make more sense when you figure out Hartman's operation and his connection to Zane, or to give the impression of a three-way struggle between Nightingale, Hartman and Jagger for possession of Wake.

[Kaotician]

I think it's a game mechanic, to allow Alan to be the focus of any future games/dlc, at the same time as providing a satisfying ending to this one in terms of Alan's sacrifice to save Alice. It'll be rationalised later, I'm sure.

[Celeste]

I suppose that's possible. Maybe it's meant to make more sense when you figure out Hartman's operation and his connection to Zane, or to give the impression of a three-way struggle between Nightingale, Hartman and Jagger for possession of Wake.

Yeah, I think it is meant to make more sense once you get to the Lodge and see that Mott was working with Hartman, and that Hartman had the connection to Zane (pieces slowly falling into place), but of course it's never fully explained. I do like the idea of a three-way struggle, I hadn't really thought of it exactly in those terms.

[MightyHealthy]

four-way struggle.

don't forget about Pat from KBF-FM :D

[maxpaynefan11]

A few points, just because I like to throw gasoline on the flames:

1) Clay Steward's knowledge is certainly not complete. He's not an omniscient narrator.

2) In his afterword, Clay Steward says he saw Wake.

so would it be safe to say that while Alan's in his dream-like state, mr. scratch is still sitting at the bottom of the lake in a semi-conscious form waiting for Alan to retain his senses and swim out, sort of like Alice?

[hades252]

i think the possibility of Mr. Scratch being evil is pretty sound, along with folklore on his name, Mr. Scratch, the Nightfalls episode "The Man in the Mirror" is about a man who was replaced (killed by) his own doppelganger. Where the man actually came from in the show wasn't revealed, only that wherever it was, it was some sort of mirror. During one of the t.v. sequences where Alan is in the cabin he reveals that Thomas Zane at one point even referred to the Lake as some sort of mirror. Mr. Scratch was created through the power of the lake, even the Thomas Zane that Alan used to help him, that appears to be an embodiment of light, was created through the lakes power so there's no guarantee that they wouldn't be susceptible to the Darkness' power.

[Friedhofner]

I actually found out something new , interesting. I don't know if it was mentioned here before , but in Ep3 , Alan gets a phone call of Alice, where she says: "Alan. Alan. I'm so afraid...keeps me in the dark.Please help me...I look at you, Alan, and it's not you...something else , looking out from behind your eyes..."
If that was a reference to Mr.Scratch (and I'm pretty sure it is!) , it pretty much turns the whole story. (well , maybe not the whole , but you know what I mean ;) ) It means , that Mr.Scratch was there back then , maybe staying with Alice while she was gone?!
Well , actually , I don't really know what that means , but I hope I could help you thinking a bit further. I actually just signed up for writing this , thought this information could be important ;)

Bye , Friedhofner

[Max Zane]

I thought that too, but it turns out that the calls you get from Alice are actually edited calls she made to Hartman prior to your journey to Bright falls (you can find the calls in full in Hartmans office)

[UndreamtReality]

This could have nothing to do with Scratch but just noticed it playing again today. When waking up from the coffee in Rose's apartment Wake is on the T.V. and hes watching it seems whats going on in the room. So if people are still on the whole "you play as scratch" thing maybe Alan is looking to see what hes up to. Anyway all in all re seeing that scene just stuck with me, it clearly looks like Alan knows whats going on judging by his look in the TV. ...wow thats a lot of text.

[Fixit]

I thought that too, but it turns out that the calls you get from Alice are actually edited calls she made to Hartman prior to your journey to Bright falls (you can find the calls in full in Hartmans office)

Unless...what Alice was describing in those calls was actually Mr. Scratch, who has been in the picture a lot longer than we think. Even before the Wakes got to Bright Falls.

Oh, I just blew your mind.

Anyway, if that were true, it may provide some insight as to how Alan was able to write such a detailed novel about people he'd never met in a town he'd only just gotten to. That's the only thing that really bugs me, plot-wise.

[Celeste]

Anyway, if that were true, it may provide some insight as to how Alan was able to write such a detailed novel about people he'd never met in a town he'd only just gotten to. That's the only thing that really bugs me, plot-wise.

My assumption about that (and I believe several others') is that Barbara was feeding him info during the first week, and she would know all about the town and its inhabitants. The rest, he could have just made up and as long as it wasn't TOO out-there (or out of character for them), the people would just be bound by it (and not even be aware of it). Like, maybe Rose & Rusty weren't REALLY that close, but Alan saw their interaction at the diner and extrapolated. That kind of thing.

[Fixit]

My assumption about that (and I believe several others') is that Barbara was feeding him info during the first week, and she would know all about the town and its inhabitants. The rest, he could have just made up and as long as it wasn't TOO out-there (or out of character for them), the people would just be bound by it (and not even be aware of it). Like, maybe Rose & Rusty weren't REALLY that close, but Alan saw their interaction at the diner and extrapolated. That kind of thing.

I thought of that, but I don't like it. Barbara Jagger died in the 70's. Even if the Dark Presence was keeping tabs on the town, how much intimate detail could she possibly learn without being recognized as a supposedly dead chick? The Andersons would have recognized her in a hot second. Speaking of them, why would she a) tell Wake about the Andersons, when they already had dealings with her, and b) allow Wake to write in the song that would help defeat her? And if she was so plugged in to the town, how did she have no idea what Hartman was up to?

But let's say that's the case; I simply don't dig the explanation that the lake empowers Wake to completely control the town and its inhabitants. Not to mention Barry, who was in NYC. I took it as Wake had limited control over what was going to happen; that's why it was so difficult for Jagger to find a writer capable of doing it.

Hey, I could be wrong, and it certainly is an explanation; I just think it's an unsatisfying one.

Edited to add: According to the manuscript, the presence was hibernating until Wake showed up. Hard to stay up-to-date on town goings-on that way. Maybe it had a lot of local newspaper subscriptions. :-)

[st_loman816]

I personally believe that Mr. Scratch's only appearance in the game is when he is introduced by Zane. I don't believe we play as him or that he is even in the game at all up until that point.

I did find one thing in the Alan Wake Files that I think could have possibly been a Mr. Scratch appearance. Clay Steward says this in the Afterword, "At the time of printing, I am still unaware of whether Alan Wake is dead, missing, or in hiding. There was one night when I was walking back to the Majestic on the Elderwood trail and I thought I saw a man that looked like Wake rounding a bend in the trail. I called out and started jogging, then running after him, and while he seemed to walk at a steady pace, I was never able to catch up. There was even a brief moment in which he looked back and I saw that it was him. He smiled at me as though he were letting me in on a big secret, just before rounding the bend. When I caught up, he had vanished."

Could this have been Mr. Scratch that Mr. Steward saw? Clay says that when he arrived in Bright Falls, Alan Wake had just been there. I assume that means he arrived just shortly after the events of the game. If so, I believe that solidifies the possibility of him having seen Mr. Scratch even more.

What do you guys think?

[Celeste]

I thought of that, but I don't like it. Barbara Jagger died in the 70's. Even if the Dark Presence was keeping tabs on the town, how much intimate detail could she possibly learn without being recognized as a supposedly dead chick? The Andersons would have recognized her in a hot second. Speaking of them, why would she a) tell Wake about the Andersons, when they already had dealings with her, and b) allow Wake to write in the song that would help defeat her? And if she was so plugged in to the town, how did she have no idea what Hartman was up to?

But let's say that's the case; I simply don't dig the explanation that the lake empowers Wake to completely control the town and its inhabitants. Not to mention Barry, who was in NYC. I took it as Wake had limited control over what was going to happen; that's why it was so difficult for Jagger to find a writer capable of doing it.

Well, by "Barbara" I really meant the DP. Her being dead didn't really matter. Yes, it was hibernating, but it was still aware in a sense. It dreamed of the past, and when it woke up (upon Alan's approach), it knew enough about the present Bright Falls to be able to use the Diner and Stucky to manipulate the Wakes to the cabin. I didn't mean Barbara's body was actually walking around the town, but just that the DP was aware of the goings-on in the town to a degree (though probably still limited). Apparently Zane was as well and could communicate with Cynthia through the TVs. I think the Dark Place is somewhat of a prison, but not completely separate from the rest of reality. The "sleep" may also be more metaphorical than we're thinking of it as — just the fact that it's not able to escape its prison because no capable writer has appeared in so long to bring it back from its subdued state.

Even though she was the editor, Alan was still in control somewhat. She pushed him in the direction she (it) wanted, but ultimately, it was bound by the manuscript too. So he could put things in like the song (although I don't think he created that or anything — I think that was real before he got there) and it couldn't really do anything to stop him. I don't think he has complete control — as I said, the stuff does have to be "in character" for the people — but Cynthia says something like "We're all characters trapped in your story," which made me feel like even the people who should be somewhat "independent" of the story (i.e., people from long before the Wakes' arrival, people from the Zane/Jagger era) are still sort of "trapped" by Alan's story.

I agree, it's not an airtight theory.. but so far, I haven't found very many airtight theories about anything in this game. If there were, everything wouldn't be so debatable =)

[hades252]

C) And obviously as stated before and numerous times in the Alan Wake Ending Theories thread, people argue whether or not Thomas Zane is "good". What strikes me as odd in the first Episode, in the dream, Thomas Zane over emphasizes that the Hitchhiker is taken and he is your enemy - that he must be killed - and not be saved. Which just irks me, personally.

oh, i know, that really bothered me too, that he really really emphasized the fact that there was no way to save the taken, it just felt wrong... maybe it could be the fact that he couldn't save barbara that made him resign to the idea that the taken are irrevocably lost to the darkness, maybe it was to remove any feeling of guilt from having to kill them from alan so that he could do what needed to be done, but either way it just felt a little too sinister to me, like why couldn't we try to save them?what exactly did the darkness do that makes them so unsaveable

[raggafragga]

To bring back up Alan Wake's missing persons poster. It says he's been missing for two weeks. Well the game takes place over the course of two weeks. So that could be relevant. But as for Mr. Scratch, when I was watching the clip of him being formally introduced Zane never actually says Mr. Scratch. He says, "Oh don't worry about him that's Mr. _____" Mr. Scratch's name gets "scratched" out.

[Himos]

Hello all,

Before I get into what I think about Mr. Scratch, I wanted to note something about Barbara Jagger. According to the Alan Wake Files, ever since Barbara became the vessel for the DP she acquired the nicknames The Scratching Hag, Granny Claws, and Baba Yaga. Now being a vessel, Babara is not the true source of the DP merely a face through which to communicate to and influence the outside world.

So here are my thoughts on Mr. Scratch. Despite the old folk tales of Old Scratch and Tom Walker, my take of the scene involving the introduction of Mr. Scratch is as follows: Thomas Zane, being a weak presence of the Light among the Dark, created Mr. Scratch to become a vessel/avatar for the Light that Alan could use while he is in the cabin. This allows a human face to be applied to the "Light Presence" that was once Zane and is now taken up by Alan through his writing capabilities. Albeit a face that can have the look of an insane, benevolent trickster. ;) This will allow Alan to "start from scratch" and become a more powerful source of the Light against the DP while still having a way of communicating with others and, when necessary, be a direct influence on the events in the outside world.

Those are the connections I perceived by the end of the game and I certainly hope I am correct. However if the details aren't quite revealed or the similarities between Old Scratch and Tom Walker-Thomas Zane and Mr. Scratch are more than a coincidence, than I do hope that the story is at least told in a way that continues this great tale from Remedy in a logical, satisfactory manner.

[st_loman816]

Hello all,

Before I get into what I think about Mr. Scratch, I wanted to note something about Barbara Jagger. According to the Alan Wake Files, ever since Barbara became the vessel for the DP she acquired the nicknames The Scratching Hag, Granny Claws, and Baba Yaga. Now being a vessel, Babara is not the true source of the DP merely a face through which to communicate to and influence the outside world.

So here are my thoughts on Mr. Scratch. Despite the old folk tales of Old Scratch and Tom Walker, my take of the scene involving the introduction of Mr. Scratch is as follows: Thomas Zane, being a weak presence of the Light among the Dark, created Mr. Scratch to become a vessel/avatar for the Light that Alan could use while he is in the cabin. This allows a human face to be applied to the "Light Presence" that was once Zane and is now taken up by Alan through his writing capabilities. Albeit a face that can have the look of an insane, benevolent trickster. ;) This will allow Alan to "start from scratch" and become a more powerful source of the Light against the DP while still having a way of communicating with others and, when necessary, be a direct influence on the events in the outside world.

Those are the connections I perceived by the end of the game and I certainly hope I am correct. However if the details aren't quite revealed or the similarities between Old Scratch and Tom Walker-Thomas Zane and Mr. Scratch are more than a coincidence, than I do hope that the story is at least told in a way that continues this great tale from Remedy in a logical, satisfactory manner.

That's a pretty damn good theory. Probably one of the best I've heard about Mr. Scratch. Very nice.

[Hukka55]

That's a pretty damn good theory. Probably one of the best I've heard about Mr. Scratch. Very nice.

I agree. This is also how I perceived it, although in a more confused way. :lol:

[Friedhofner]

Another thing I came up with is the fact how Rose is grinning the whole time while possessed by Barbara Jagger / the Dark Presence. Speaking of Mr. Scratch being evil , this could be an important hint for him to be evil.
Also remember that one Manuscript page where it says sth like that about Rose while being possessed "I was grinning hard , and it hurt. But deep inside of my soul , I was crying" I don't remember excactly what it was , but that could be important , if it was like that.
Also , if you keep in mind , that it could be a "clone" of Zane , being possessed by Barbara Jagger (the fact that Alan was called "Tom" by the Anderson Brothers in the beginning.) , it could be Zane being possessed by Barbara Jagger somehow.

Phew , I hope I could tell you what I wanted to. Sry for the repeatations , I just wanted to give you some facts and some speculations. Hopefully you understand what I mean.

Sry for mistakes , I'm not the best at English ;)

Greets , Friedhofner

[Himos]

Another thing I came up with is the fact how Rose is grinning the whole time while possessed by Barbara Jagger / the Dark Presence. Speaking of Mr. Scratch being evil , this could be an important hint for him to be evil.
Also remember that one Manuscript page where it says sth like that about Rose while being possessed "I was grinning hard , and it hurt. But deep inside of my soul , I was crying" I don't remember excactly what it was , but that could be important , if it was like that.

That is certainly an interesting way to look at it. I personally took Mr. Scratch's grin as a reflection of the fact that Alan had been "touched" by the darkness and had become insane to certain extent because of it. For Mr. Scratch it is simply much more noticeable in his demeanor, than with Alan. Least its that way so far.

Also , if you keep in mind , that it could be a "clone" of Zane , being possessed by Barbara Jagger (the fact that Alan was called "Tom" by the Anderson Brothers in the beginning.) , it could be Zane being possessed by Barbara Jagger somehow.

Again, an interesting interpretation of the events. The Anderson Brothers calling Alan by the name of "Tom" could simply be a mix-up due to their dementia or perhaps it could be seen as evidence of the the "Zane is Alan's Father" theory. By being Alan's actual genetic father or simply Zane creating Alan in his own image is another way to look at.


Either way this just gets me more excited for the upcoming DLC and, hopefully, Alan Wake: Season 2. =)

[Himos]

That's a pretty damn good theory. Probably one of the best I've heard about Mr. Scratch. Very nice.

I agree. This is also how I perceived it, although in a more confused way. :lol:

Thanks guys, I'm just glad I was able to get my thoughts typed out at the time and feel satisfied as long as it could be accepted as plausible theory. =)

Looking back though, I realized I did not quite go ever why it was worth mentioning the nicknames given to Barbara Jagger once she became the DP's vessel. I'll now go into a little more detail about that and hope this will help with any confusion that may occur. Or at the very least, this will lead to some more details to think about and not lead to further confusion.


With the nickname, The Scratching Hag, I noticed a connection between Barbara and Mr. Scratch. In that once Alan destroyed Barbara with the Clicker, he quite literally severed all ties the DP had with Barbara including Bright Falls' history involving her and any nicknames associated with her. Though the locals will still remember the tales of Granny Claws (which may or may not turn into some interesting encounters in future seasons), the DP also had to start from scratch and it can be assumed that Alan wrote Nightingale as the new face in order to keep balance in the story.

What does this have to do directly with Alan and Mr. Scratch? For me it is the fact that, again, once Alan destroyed Barbara, he ended up inheriting Diver's Isle and its cabin (which is an interesting thought in and of itself). Now with Mr. Scratch taking Alan's place in the outside world, it is possible two of the three nicknames associated with Barbara could end up being passed onto Alan. Namely “The Scratching Hag”, since for all we know Mr. Scratch could let it slip that “Mr. Scratch” is his true name and come out of context as a nickname, as well as “Baba Yaga” now that Alan occupies the Isle and it’s cabin as a base of operations for the fight against the DP. Though the Baba Yaga nickname might become more akin to Loki... =)
If nothing else it could show Alan and Mr. Scratch becoming part of the local legends of Bright Falls.


For me this created interesting metaphors within the story of Season 1, which may or may not be touched upon in future Seasons.

[Friedhofner]

@Max Zane
I thought that too, but it turns out that the calls you get from Alice are actually edited calls she made to Hartman prior to your journey to Bright falls (you can find the calls in full in Hartmans office)
That could make sense , but did you actually think of Mr.Scratch being there before the events in Bright Falls? She clearly describes Mr.Scratch here , in my opinion.

@Himos

Again, an interesting interpretation of the events. The Anderson Brothers calling Alan by the name of "Tom" could simply be a mix-up due to their dementia or perhaps it could be seen as evidence of the the "Zane is Alan's Father" theory. By being Alan's actual genetic father or simply Zane creating Alan in his own image is another way to look at.
But the fact , that Zane even SOUNDS the same like Alan in the last level makes me think if Zane was some kind of pendant to Alan back in the 70s. It could aczually be , that Zane is Alans genetic father , but I don't think so because he had a wife/girlfriend (Barbara Jagger).
The theory of Zane "creating" Alan would be much more logic to me.
The page found in the well-lit room, for example.

@Remedy

You ****ing created a hell of a game! It's amazing how the story "continues" in the forums ! I actually like the open ending (or should I say the very-open ending? ;) ) , because you can create your own ending , mix your version with other interpretations and so on. I'm highly waiting for the DLC's and the sequels , let's see what you will make out of it. Hopefully it won't take another 6 years lol.
I'm actually getting the Collectors Edition now , because I'm curious about what happens in the Alan Wake Files !

Greets , Friedhofner :)

[Hukka55]

once Alan destroyed Barbara with the Clicker

Or did he destroy her after all? Wasn't it was Zane who said "You have to fill her with light" by using the Clicker, fill her heart with light, basically.
As far as metaphors go, that seems like a saving metaphor, not destroying. :cool:

[Himos]

Or did he destroy her after all? Wasn't it was Zane who said "You have to fill her with light" by using the Clicker, fill her heart with light, basically.
As far as metaphors go, that seems like a saving metaphor, not destroying.:cool:

Quite right, certainly fits better with the image that Alan has been saving the Taken from being forever slaves to the DP.;)
Whereas the DP destroys people once they become Taken.

Good catch Hukka!

[wakeywakey]

There are two other times we see Mr. Scratch.

1. When Alan is running up on Mott at Mirror Peak, just before Mott is sucked into the tornado. Mott is already pleading with Alan and he sounds scared out of his mind. Yet you, playing as Alan, are running up the trail calling that you're there. The whole confession comes out before you get there, and for a second, you see a 2nd Alan. Then all Hell breaks loose.

2. When Hartman gets shut into his office, you see "Alan" diving with Mr. Scratch's insane little grin on his face. It could be Scratch sealed him in, not Alan. Because Alan never has that expression on his face again. The expression seems to match the one spoken of in the files. It also matches the expression on Scratch's face when Alan meets him face to face for the first time.

Scratch is certainly nothing good. The look on his face alone told me that, even without the references to the Devil.

after playing through it again it sounds like he is talking to someone else as sometimes he states "he" which could mean that he is talking about alan not to him

[Hukka55]

Quite right, certainly fits better with the image that Alan has been saving the Taken from being forever slaves to the DP.;)
Whereas the DP destroys people once they become Taken.

Good catch Hukka!

Thanks, mate. I thought that maybe, just maybe, Zane used Alan to save Barbara. After all, he might have realized after his own failure, that a switch has to take place.

The Signal looks like it's taking place in the Dark Place. So maybe Alan has to get out, following the signal of his Verizon cellphone, or something. In the trailer we hear Alan saying something about the signal getting weaker.

[AnttiApina]

"Doppelgänger" is usually connceted with a wicked and devilish image: clearly Mr.Scratch seems to be Wake's opponent.

Still I cannot grasp the fact that Mr.Zane would be planning to backstab Wake: Why would he?

Why would Zane say: "Don't mind him."?

I'm awaiting for possible answers in the DLC.

[Hukka55]

Still I cannot grasp the fact that Mr.Zane would be planning to backstab Wake: Why would he?

There's only one reason, really. Love.

[AlexarowFS]

AnttiApina,
I think, in my opinion, its all the way around (well actually 180 since 360 would just be the same); Alan is the bad devilish image in this whole thing and Mr. Scratch is what is pure and good.
And I really don't see the point that ppl are trying to say that Mr. Scratch had an evil smile at the end. I guess the shadow on his face when he smiled did kinda put the whole situation in a more dark setting but nothing looked evil about his laugh. His eyebrows were up and his eyes were slightly a little bit more open. That only can say that he was happy or hii...peractive.... It does not look to me like an evil smile because of that.
Now second point since Mr. Scratch is good then ALAN is BAD, and that makes good sense because the balance issue (lightness v. darkness). Alan has a temper, he is always hot headed, impatient, quick to judge, and he gets touched over by the dark presence. Lets face it guys our main character is the dark side of the split between him and Scratch.
That also gives a more rounded approach to Nightingale character.

[Hukka55]

The smile looked fake, as it was propably meant to, to push over the fact to the players that Mr.Scratch, although he will replace Alan, is not Alan.
Does not have a soul, if you will.

[Max Zane]

If you watch the cinematics back, then you'll notice that the one called "the doppelganger" is the one where Alan is in the "dark" version of his apartment with the "dark Alice". I find this very interesting, because happens right before the reveal of Mr. Scratch and implies that the DP has the power to 'copy' people/places and create "dark" versions of them in the dark place.
I believe that means that Mr. Scratch is the DP's clone of Alan, just as we saw its copy of Alice.

[Pauloselhombre]

"Doppelgänger" is usually connceted with a wicked and devilish image

Don't forget Doppelgangers are also often cited as appearing to warn someone of their impending death, often successfully averting it. As with anything that is seen as an 'omen of doom' they can be helpful.

[Delta OUT]

Maybe Alan Wake is the pawn , and Thomas the Evil
Barbara maybe is another creation of him, to make Wake free him
hsaushuh, have to wait to see what remedy gets into their sick(shadows) minds :lol:

[Moklin]

Yeah, the thing is he was introduced late in the game in the well lit room and Alan's out of body experience was caused by the moonshine at the Anderson's place.

I always thought it was the alcohol. Seriously.

[pollypp]

Zane says that "your friends will meet him when you are gone". This may not necessarily be a good thing. When all people are taken, they are possessed by the darkness and appear as Taken. It might very well indicate that Zane's intentions is to use Alan to take his place in the lake, possess Mr. Scratch, and basically use his body to get out of the lake. Wake will write him out of the story into the real world thinking he is a good guy.

This would also apply to Nightingale's creepy look in the diner at the Deerfest. He is also possessed and was written out of the story by accident.

Why would Zane do this?

Zane is the darkness. He creates an elaborate trap to make sure Alan writes more power for him. He will use Mr Scratch as a physical form because at the moment he is nothing more than cloud or 'darkness' that can only possess, not actually touch or do anything. I would guess this is why he appears in the form of a diving suit - he probably killed a diver and possessed his suit to use as a physical form for communication with Alan.

[Dogtopia]

What if Alan is Toms Mr Scratch!!!

[Scenro]

I actually found out something new , interesting. I don't know if it was mentioned here before , but in Ep3 , Alan gets a phone call of Alice, where she says: "Alan. Alan. I'm so afraid...keeps me in the dark.Please help me...I look at you, Alan, and it's not you...something else , looking out from behind your eyes..."
If that was a reference to Mr.Scratch (and I'm pretty sure it is!) , it pretty much turns the whole story. (well , maybe not the whole , but you know what I mean ;) ) It means , that Mr.Scratch was there back then , maybe staying with Alice while she was gone?!
Well , actually , I don't really know what that means , but I hope I could help you thinking a bit further. I actually just signed up for writing this , thought this information could be important ;)

Bye , Friedhofner

I think what it means in reference is taht alice was thrust into the lake and in possesion of Alan's doppleganger (mr scratch). Alice possibly having the doppleganger that shows up in the apartment towards the end saying 'it was all a dream alan, come back to bed' and so forth...well real alan and alice doppleganger were stuck together in reality or taht side of the mirror. then through a switch towards the end Alan switched with Mr scratch and real alice to bring her back. the doppleganger or supposed doppleganger (jagger?) were then pulled to the other side of the mirror, the darker side where theyre to remain. Now Alan is still writing. Whether he's sane writing or not is dependent.
We see him sanely begin writing as he brings alice back, making the switch and now to what i persume narrating Mr. Scratch's life, or even Alice's life. In a bittersweet sense it would mean he gave himself up so she could live, his only contact with her being his writing or his love. ( i believe the idea his writing was all he loved, 'not alice' dialouge was mentioned in the last chapter when youre walking towards the cabin for the final cut scene) Anyway this is a basis theory of mine.

So in idea to this, yes i believe mr scratch is now playing Alan, while Alice and 'Alan' go home to near york. The ocean either meanign teh stream of darkness is bigger then a lake, or that the Ocean is Atlantic, hence new york.

Oh maybe Rose new lady of light? doubtfully but with Nightengale and Rose being more or less possesed, it still perplexes me. Also whatever happens to Hartman?


And heres something that will through anyones thoery out of wack. So Mr scratch does have the bandaid on his forehead, but Alan didnt. Well the person typing in the typewriter speaking teh line "its not a lake its an ocean" had the bandaid.... taht opr it was viceversa and it confirms thats Alan. Either way guess ill have to watch the ending again.

But yes heres my imense thoughts lol.

EDIT:: Also,



Again, an interesting interpretation of the events. The Anderson Brothers calling Alan by the name of "Tom" could simply be a mix-up due to their dementia or perhaps it could be seen as evidence of the the "Zane is Alan's Father" theory. By being Alan's actual genetic father or simply Zane creating Alan in his own image is another way to look at.


Either way this just gets me more excited for the upcoming DLC and, hopefully, Alan Wake: Season 2. =)

^^^ The voices between Tom and Alan do seem to mix with themselves in the last scene where you hear dialogue of Tom talking to Jagger then suddenly it morphs to Alan's voice speaking.

That pr Zane 'created' Alan Wake and knew this would happen all along. Thus making Zane the puppetmaster.

This could have nothing to do with Scratch but just noticed it playing again today. When waking up from the coffee in Rose's apartment Wake is on the T.V. and hes watching it seems whats going on in the room. So if people are still on the whole "you play as scratch" thing maybe Alan is looking to see what hes up to. Anyway all in all re seeing that scene just stuck with me, it clearly looks like Alan knows whats going on judging by his look in the TV. ...wow thats a lot of text.

^^^^^^
Maybe he never actually left the cabin but wrote himself out as in a shadow of his formal self, mr scratch? to act. So Alan may be well aware of whats going on outside of the cabin.... i also had another valid point to his but forgot x-x

[Jamessunderland]

I actually found out something new , interesting. I don't know if it was mentioned here before , but in Ep3 , Alan gets a phone call of Alice, where she says: "Alan. Alan. I'm so afraid...keeps me in the dark.Please help me...I look at you, Alan, and it's not you...something else , looking out from behind your eyes..."
If that was a reference to Mr.Scratch (and I'm pretty sure it is!) , it pretty much turns the whole story. (well , maybe not the whole , but you know what I mean ;) ) It means , that Mr.Scratch was there back then , maybe staying with Alice while she was gone?!
Well , actually , I don't really know what that means , but I hope I could help you thinking a bit further. I actually just signed up for writing this , thought this information could be important ;)

Bye , Friedhofner

Hartman edited alice's panicked phone call about how alan's actions lately to use against alan and capture him. Alice also is describing how alan is getting more aggressive and spiraling emotionally out of control and completely neglecting her in the actual context of the recording.

[Jamessunderland]

Well, by "Barbara" I really meant the DP. Her being dead didn't really matter. Yes, it was hibernating, but it was still aware in a sense. It dreamed of the past, and when it woke up (upon Alan's approach), it knew enough about the present Bright Falls to be able to use the Diner and Stucky to manipulate the Wakes to the cabin. I didn't mean Barbara's body was actually walking around the town, but just that the DP was aware of the goings-on in the town to a degree (though probably still limited). Apparently Zane was as well and could communicate with Cynthia through the TVs. I think the Dark Place is somewhat of a prison, but not completely separate from the rest of reality. The "sleep" may also be more metaphorical than we're thinking of it as — just the fact that it's not able to escape its prison because no capable writer has appeared in so long to bring it back from its subdued state.

Even though she was the editor, Alan was still in control somewhat. She pushed him in the direction she (it) wanted, but ultimately, it was bound by the manuscript too. So he could put things in like the song (although I don't think he created that or anything — I think that was real before he got there) and it couldn't really do anything to stop him. I don't think he has complete control — as I said, the stuff does have to be "in character" for the people — but Cynthia says something like "We're all characters trapped in your story," which made me feel like even the people who should be somewhat "independent" of the story (i.e., people from long before the Wakes' arrival, people from the Zane/Jagger era) are still sort of "trapped" by Alan's story.

I agree, it's not an airtight theory.. but so far, I haven't found very many airtight theories about anything in this game. If there were, everything wouldn't be so debatable =)

your on the right track I believe but your missing some things the manuscript describes quite a bit about the events transpiring the manuscript describes the darkness needing alans mind intact so he could write so unlike all the taken she "touched" him to try and keep some control over him and make him work, but obviously with even a little bit of freedom he began to see the truth about the darkness through half accidental additions in the story like zane and half having part of his mind intact just enough to write. I can't remember which page it was but it described the darkness living beyond a body as you're describing here. You've got the rules completely correct for the story.

P.S. For everyone thinking about zane just some quick info in case you didn't know when Barbara came back he cut out her heart and tied her up unable to stop her by that attempt he tried to unwrite everything even himself making himself lost to history but he left a loophole in case he couldn't stop her the shoebox anything with in it would remain untouched he came back to the cabin and plunged both him and barbara into the ocean and they sank but never met a bottom stalling the darkness temporarily. Alan arrived years later and as they say the rest is history. The clicker was said to be from alans father by his mother he never knew just informing you in case you need more to speculate on. All info is told from the game non of what I've said is theory this is via gameplay or manuscript.

[Libertarian]

Hartman edited alice's panicked phone call about how alan's actions lately to use against alan and capture him. Alice also is describing how alan is getting more aggressive and spiraling emotionally out of control and completely neglecting her in the actual context of the recording.

And right around that part, where you find the manuscripts and Hartman enters the room, you see that creepy smile at the end of the scene.

[Jamessunderland]

And right around that part, where you find the manuscripts and Hartman enters the room, you see that creepy smile at the end of the scene.

I don't think that the smile is incriminating enough to prove anything to drastic it could have something to do with being touched by the darkness but my intake of it is that infamously hair trigger anger wake has if you watch you see wake suddenly become aggressive and it looks like he isn't just threatening hartman he's warning him that if he takes one more step he'll shoot him just watch it though it's a quick turn from normal alan to pure anger.

[MikkiRMD]

the manuscript describes the darkness needing alans mind intact so he could write so unlike all the taken she "touched" him to try and keep some control over him and make him work

A little while ago somebody asked me if there was something in the game people had missed? Well, I believe this is the first time someone has actually intentionally talked about this aspect of the story. Yeah, Wake didn't get taken, he only got touched.

There are at least two other characters in Alan Wake who have that happen to them.

[BBboy20]

Edited to add: According to the manuscript, the presence was hibernating until Wake showed up. Hard to stay up-to-date on town goings-on that way. Maybe it had a lot of local newspaper subscriptions. :-)We still don't know what the Dark Presence is. For all we know, even in "slumber" it still knows every bit of detail of everything around it so trying to apply human logic or rules kind of becomes mute.

This whole Switch-a-roo would have made more sense if it wasn't for the fact that apparently Bright Falls seem to now know what's going on based on their keen on secrecy if Clay's description on the town's reaction is true. So now it seems Mr. Scratch maybe there for a different reason then to just to "replace" Alan while he's going which gives me the impression there are much more rules of Dark Place/Real World interactions then we know.

[Celeste]

your on the right track I believe but your missing some things the manuscript describes quite a bit about the events transpiring the manuscript describes the darkness needing alans mind intact so he could write so unlike all the taken she "touched" him to try and keep some control over him and make him work

A little while ago somebody asked me if there was something in the game people had missed? Well, I believe this is the first time someone has actually intentionally talked about this aspect of the story. Yeah, Wake didn't get taken, he only got touched.

There are at least two other characters in Alan Wake who have that happen to them.

Good point, I think you're completely right that it was her mistake (and his advantage) that she gave him that freedom by trying to keep his mind intact. I never meant to imply Alan was taken, so I apologize if I wasn't clear before. I guess thought it was kind of a given that he was "touched" since it was mentioned in the game a couple times (I know Cynthia says something about it when she explains the paint). Mikki, are she and Rose the other two who qualify?

[MikkiRMD]

Mikki, are she and Rose the other two who qualify?

Rose, sure. Cynthia -- well, fair enough, but that didn't happen to her during the game, so it's not quite who I was thinking about. I had somebody else in mind. =)

[Pauloselhombre]

Rose, sure. Cynthia -- well, fair enough, but that didn't happen to her during the game, so it's not quite who I was thinking about. I had somebody else in mind. =)

My guess would be Nightingale or Hartman?

[Jamessunderland]

My guess would be Nightingale or Hartman?

Nightingale might explain why we see him in the background covered in shadows during the ending cutscene (behind rose) Hartmans a little harder think about since he has appeared again since wake let darkness do something (I would say kill him but we never see so it's still open). I can't personally think of any other suspected people who may have been touched during the game. My bet is nightingale though.

[MikkiRMD]

My guess would be Nightingale or Hartman?

Nope. (Well, we don't really learn what happens to either of them during the game, so I guess an argument could be made... But nope.)

[Jamessunderland]

Nope. (Well, we don't really learn what happens to either of them during the game, so I guess an argument could be made... But nope.)

Hmm we know what occurs to those touched by the darkness and logically we should be able to tell then. Do we see this person get touched by the darkness. If so we've got less to choose from and most likely it's someone right in front of us. My gut feeling is that it might be alice but their are tons of other suspects still.

[MikkiRMD]

Hmm we know what occurs to those touched by the darkness and logically we should be able to tell then. Do we see this person get touched by the darkness. If so we've got less to choose from and most likely it's someone right in front of us. My gut feeling is that it might be alice but their are tons of other suspects still.

No, you don't see it happen, and you don't see them in that state for very long, but it's a reasonably prominent character, and the event itself is actually quite pivotal to the plot.

(I can just come out and say it, but I'm operating under the assumption that you guys wanna try to puzzle it out for yourselves. Let me know if I'm just annoying everybody. ;))

[GameScares]

No, you don't see it happen, and you don't see them in that state for very long, but it's a reasonably prominent character, and the event itself is actually quite pivotal to the plot.

(I can just come out and say it, but I'm operating under the assumption that you guys wanna try to puzzle it out for yourselves. Let me know if I'm just annoying everybody. ;))

Wow! Looks like we are about to get some clarification from an actual writer from the game, well done guys for getting this far, you must be close to get a response like this!

By the way, I think Pat the radio guy is much too nice and has a heads up on everything going on in the town, is he as innocent as he seems? ;)

[MikkiRMD]

By the way, I think Pat the radio guy is much too nice and has a heads up on everything going on in the town, is he as innocent as he seems? ;)

I knew this would happen -- we've got a guy like Pat Maine, who never really does anything remotely nasty and who really establishes himself as a courteous, humane and caring guy, and somebody's inevitably gonna go, "hey, that guy's up to something!" ;)

[Danny_HR]

I knew this would happen -- we've got a guy like Pat Maine, who never really does anything remotely nasty and who really establishes himself as a courteous, humane and caring guy, and somebody's inevitably gonna go, "hey, that guy's up to something!" ;)
The guy just seems out of this world. Something just isnt right here. :)

Even my GF who didn't play the game but only read the book by Burroughs thought so.

[GameScares]

I knew this would happen -- we've got a guy like Pat Maine, who never really does anything remotely nasty and who really establishes himself as a courteous, humane and caring guy, and somebody's inevitably gonna go, "hey, that guy's up to something!" ;)

Hah! Having played this game with people watching a few of them did say "he's too nice, I bet he's the ultimate bad guy", but yeah it seems a bit too obvious to blame the good guy, or is it....?

I love that after so many people have completed the game we're still guessing as to what actually happened, that's pretty much unprecedented in gaming, well done, however Mikki I don't think you should clarify anything yet, let them keep guessing, sorry fans I just love the fact that we are all still talking about it, there's a way to go yet!

Incidentally the guy who voiced Pat Maine, I take my hat off to him, such a soothing/calm voice that was a welcome relief after venturing through those night time forest sections, really helped Bright Falls feel like an actual place when talking to the residents and playing his quirky tunes.

[Pauloselhombre]

No, you don't see it happen, and you don't see them in that state for very long, but it's a reasonably prominent character, and the event itself is actually quite pivotal to the plot.

(I can just come out and say it, but I'm operating under the assumption that you guys wanna try to puzzle it out for yourselves. Let me know if I'm just annoying everybody. ;))

Lol, got it (I think). Stucky. Good old Carl appears to only have been 'touched' to keep him from giving the Wakes their keys, judging by his lucidity and mild sensitivity to light when he runs out after the car. His being Taken likely happened much later (if I'm right).

Hmm, it suddenly strikes me that full blown Taken don't actually appear until Alan is in the cabin writing. Not sure if this is relevant though, as the Andersons have apparently "fought these shades before", although technically Alan wrote that manuscript page.

[MikkiRMD]

Lol, got it (I think). Stucky. Good old Carl appears to only have been 'touched' to keep him from giving the Wakes their keys, judging by his lucidity and mild sensitivity to light when he runs out after the car. His being Taken likely happened much later (if I'm right).

Nice job, you got it. =) That's exactly right -- he only got turned into a Taken later on; when we see him briefly at the diner, he's been touched, and he's obviously quite confused about the whole deal.

[Jamessunderland]

Hmm, it suddenly strikes me that full blown Taken don't actually appear until Alan is in the cabin writing. Not sure if this is relevant though, as the Andersons have apparently "fought these shades before", although technically Alan wrote that manuscript page.

This I believe is a result of the manuscript empowering the darkness since it was in a weakened state before it was unable to forge taken most likely. The andersons, cynthia, and the secret society may have faced them when the darkness was gaining power the last time which was ended by zanes sacrifices (although amplified by his work originally).

P.S. Weaver's writings activated by light can also only be seen by those that have been touched by the darkness so I wonder if you've been touched will their always be a link between you and the darkness.

[Pauloselhombre]

This I believe is a result of the manuscript empowering the darkness since it was in a weakened state before it was unable to forge taken most likely. The andersons, cynthia, and the secret society may have faced them when the darkness was gaining power the last time which was ended by zanes sacrifices (although amplified by his work originally).

P.S. Weaver's writings activated by light can also only be seen by those that have been touched by the darkness so I wonder if you've been touched will their always be a link between you and the darkness.

Thing is, as a result of the whole 'Alan might be Tom's son, taken away by social services when both parents vanished mysteriously' theory (possible due to the rocking horse in the cabin), I suspect that Alan was already touched by darkness long before he came to bright falls, hence the mild aversion to sunlight (in the character profile in the guide) and the recurring nightmare about the Dark Presence. I can't remember where I read it, but I think Nightingale had a similiar (if not the same) nightmare. So the big question there is "Before coming to Bright Falls, when was Clay touched by darkness?

[Celeste]

Ah, nice! I forgot about Stucky. What about Alice, does she count at all or no since she wasn't actually mind-controlled? I wasn't sure if being abducted to the Dark Place would have an effect (i.e., if she would be able to see the paint, be connected to the DP, etc.) even if not to the same extent as with the others.

Re: Pat, I did have kind of a question about him although I don't suspect him of being evil. There's one line of dialogue he had which I wondered about — it's when you go to the radio station and he's talking to the audience about the fact that Alan's there ostensibly to do an interview. If you don't go in right away, he says something about how Alan has written mostly crime fiction before but is now working on his first horror novel. But I thought he previously hadn't planned to write anything in the horror genre and only just fell into it via the events of the game? Or was Departure always going to be a horror book (hence the title?)? Maybe I just missed something but at the time I was thinking that indicated some extra layer to the story (though I don't really know exactly what..).

[AlexarowFS]

The thought has always been in my head so Why not vocalize it here.

Since Mikki was talking about Pat,
I will always think that he also fell in love with Barbara, just did not tell her. I remember the radio show where he was having some remorse about something like that. Not sure how factual my statement is since I've only listened to that show once.
I feel that he has also been touched by the darkness since he is always up at night.
Maybe its just an understatement since I bet there are radio spokespeople that transmit during the night.
Maybe he is waiting for her.
It's a nice plot for him, fitting in a way.

Ohh and by the way how old do you guys think Pat is? I don't have my Alan Wake Files since I let my friend borrow them.
U see I should have punished him for not buying the limited edition by not letting him borrow it. :evilgrin:

[Jamessunderland]

The thought has always been in my head so Why not vocalize it here.

Since Mikki was talking about Pat,
I will always think that he also fell in love with Barbara, just did not tell her. I remember the radio show where he was having some remorse about something like that. Not sure how factual my statement is since I've only listened to that show once.
I feel that he has also been touched by the darkness since he is always up at night.
Maybe its just an understatement since I bet there are radio spokespeople that transmit during the night.
Maybe he is waiting for her.
It's a nice plot for him, fitting in a way.
:evilgrin:

It makes sense I suppose his recording talks about him missing his chance with someone long ago and from the sound of it he miss's a lot (maybe hinting towards barbara since she died) and that there's no way to get her back. The darkness I think he may have ran into back in the 70's which may include him into the secret society in bright falls if he is a member it would explain why he spends so much time with doc who has ran into events like rose's before (being touched by the darkness) and he's scarred when he see's rose according to one of the pages doc is also a member of the secret society with in bright falls.

[Scenro]

Thing is, as a result of the whole 'Alan might be Tom's son, taken away by social services when both parents vanished mysteriously' theory (possible due to the rocking horse in the cabin), I suspect that Alan was already touched by darkness long before he came to bright falls, hence the mild aversion to sunlight (in the character profile in the guide) and the recurring nightmare about the Dark Presence. I can't remember where I read it, but I think Nightingale had a similiar (if not the same) nightmare. So the big question there is "Before coming to Bright Falls, when was Clay touched by darkness?


Alan might not even be Tm's son by reality standards. But by his Son in the fact that Zane may have written Alan somewhere. Alan was a created character and therefore the son of the writer in creation. Just a thought. Or it could be the realistic way. Either one fits.

[de-evoproject]

I had to register just to post here. I am THAT sucked into this game. lol

So it was posted further up but it pretty much got ignored. Didn't anyone else notice that although in the subtitles it says "Mr. Scratch" that the audio is actually a static scratch sound and not the word "scratch"? And if you have the DLC everytime they come to a name you get the same static. Example: In the diner at the beginning of "The Signal" when Rose is talking about Rusty being "coffee under a thin layer of skin" (A repeat of the dialog from the beginning of the game), Rusty's name is replaced with static. Same for when the Anderson request you play the song "Coconut", coconut is replaced with static.

So "Mr. Scratch" doesn't necessarily have to be his name.

And about the smile in the cutscene on "Mr. Scratch" face, i didn't get the evil vibe. Seemed more care-free, innocent and even a little child like, like he isn't under the burdens that Alan is and already knows everything is going to be OK. I keep seeing it equated to either A) the smile on Roses face or B) the smile that Alan had when he "killed" Hartman.

In response to A, I see a glaring difference. Rose's whole facial expression seems distant, blank, even mildly "possessed (aka "touched by the darkness"). She looks disconnected and like she's not really "aware". Mr. Scratch (man i hate calling him that, lol) looks more warm and friendly, acutely aware of Alan and giving him a friendly smile and wave.

To B, Alan's smile at the death of Hartman really looks like an evil, dark smirk of a man that has just done something evil and enjoyed it. Again i attribute this to his "being touched by darkness". The "other Alan" (thats better :D) again seems friendly, warm even, like he HASN'T been touched by the darkness.

Of course all of this is my take on video game graphics of very specific facial expressions that although amazing, still allow for some personal interpretation.

Anyway, carry on.

[Celeste]

And about the smile in the cutscene on "Mr. Scratch" face, i didn't get the evil vibe. Seemed more care-free, innocent and even a little child like, like he isn't under the burdens that Alan is and already knows everything is going to be OK. I keep seeing it equated to either A) the smile on Roses face or B) the smile that Alan had when he "killed" Hartman.

Yes, I have been saying that all along. I felt like he was someone who had just been born and didn't understand suffering yet. Not someone evil. Totally agree.

[Scenro]

^^^^^ After replaying the game 3 times i can finally agree to this that it didn't seem completely evil. Still suspicious and the audio 'scratching' is a bit of a pain.

[de-evoproject]

^^^^^ After replaying the game 3 times i can finally agree to this that it didn't seem completely evil. Still suspicious and the audio 'scratching' is a bit of a pain.

I think the audio scratch is 100% intentional. Like in The Signal.

[stricky345]

This Thread is a bit old, and I don't know if there's another one yet, adding to that I haven't played the DLCs and I'm tired but I still wanted to post here before I forget :).

Assuming that everything is Zane's story (Alan's dream might suggest that), he maybe needs Mr. Scratch to distract everyone from the lake so that no one goes to try to safe Alan, thus releasing the darkness again. Second theory is that Mr. Scratch was created so that Alan could interact with the world outside the lake, helping him escape his prison.
Third theory is that Mr. Scratch could be used to transfer Alan's personality from the cabin to the ''real'' world.

[Master_Moridin]

What if Scratch isn't a copy of a specific person, but an inhabitant of the Dark Place like the DP. When a new person enters he turns into a copy of them (perhaps in the hope something will happen to them, which would somehow free him) i dont know, it's just that the way Zane says "don't mind him" makes me think he's seen this before and is actually quite familiar with it.

[Hukka55]

What if Scratch isn't a copy of a specific person, but an inhabitant of the Dark Place like the DP. When a new person enters he turns into a copy of them (perhaps in the hope something will happen to them, which would somehow free him) i dont know, it's just that the way Zane says "don't mind him" makes me think he's seen this before and is actually quite familiar with it.

You know, that could be it. The episode "Man in the Mirror" could be a nudge towards this idea.

[Master_Moridin]

Yeah, just watched that one, and it really does fit. Cause the doppleganger kinda hints he could be anyone's doppleganger when he tells the cop he might see him in the mirror.

[kleiner352]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Alan still wanted by the FBI? Wouldn't they try to arrest Scratch, or was this somehow changed by Alan finishing Departure? I've wondered this for awhile and have yet to see it mentioned.

[Master_Moridin]

Nightengale wasn't on FBI business. So.....nope, Alan(or Scratch) is fine.

[kleiner352]

Thanks for clearing that up. Always bugged me. I get the impression, though, that Scratch might end up having some independence/sentience? Maybe he decides he likes being Alan a little too much and ends up not wanting to leave? I really love how open-ended his entire story is.
Another little Scratch theory of mine: Maybe he is someone who got lost in the Dark PLace long before anyone, and having been there so long caused him to lose himself? I just doubt something that lives in the Dark Place would be perfectly sane after who knows how long.

[Master_Moridin]

I don't know about him being someone lost. You'd think Zane would sound sad when he introduces him if that was the case.

[Dusk Golem]

I posted this in the ending topic but it is directly related.

So someone got me thinking about Clay's story in the Collector's Edition, in which at the end Clay talks about being happy because he has his family even though his family clearly had left him earlier when he got too obsessed chasing Wake. There was no suggestion his life had gotten better or they had gotten back together to this point, and his tone changed after meeting Mr. Scratch.

Tom in Alan Wake says that Scratch will be in place of Alan in the real world. This confused me for the longest time as we know already that Barry, Alice, and everyone hadn't seen Alan and if Mr. Scratch was replacing Alan he would be living his life onward with Alice and all. However, thinking about it I think I finally understand. It's just a theory though.

But after Clay see's Mr. Scratch he suddenly seems to be with his family again. Maybe Mr. Scratch isn't REPLACING Alan but rather REPRESENTING him. In other words, in that reality-changing book of Alan's, Clay saw Mr. Scratch as something like an "avatar" for Alan since Alan wrote in his novel that Clay was still with his family. In other words, he changed Clay's fate and when that happened Clay saw Mr. Scratch since Alan was changing it.

In other words, I believe now at least, Mr. Scratch is being like an avatar that appears in what he is changing in his novel in the real world. This would be why Clay saw Mr. Scratch, because Alan was writing about him and changing things in his book which was involved with Clay. This is also why afterwards Clay seems like he has his family again, even if people are pitying him. Balance since good and bad need to happen, Clay gets his family back to be happy even if everyone else looks down on him.

[Ruffus]

The cinematic at the end of episode 2 where Barbara is puppeteering Rose into calling Barry regarding the manuscript pages, Rose looks exactly like Mr. Scratch with the same expression and emptiness. The similarity in both cases is the presence of darkness. Now, Alan did speak of balancing the scales: a good action required a bad one. And he did realize his good self could die saving Alice's life. Maybe Mr. Scratch is darkness incarnate. The NEW face the darkness wears.

[Hukka55]

The cinematic at the end of episode 2 where Barbara is puppeteering Rose into calling Barry regarding the manuscript pages, Rose looks exactly like Mr. Scratch with the same expression and emptiness. The similarity in both cases is the presence of darkness. Now, Alan did speak of balancing the scales: a good action required a bad one. And he did realize his good self could die saving Alice's life. Maybe Mr. Scratch is darkness incarnate. The NEW face the darkness wears.

Hmm, possible. Even plausible.

This would then indicate that the real Barbara is trapped still within the Lake.
Now that the Darkness-ridden Barbara copy is destroyed, maybe Barbara can be freed.

But this is all so much speculation, with no real proof for it. Why continue? :rolleyes:

[Ruffus]

But this is all so much speculation, with no real proof for it. Why continue? :rolleyes:

Because it's a forum: a meeting or assembly for the open discussion of subjects of public interest (dictionary.com)

And cuz it's Alan Wake, the embodiment of "so much speculation, with no real proof for it."

[andreweasby]

From a new interview by HellDescent:

Sam Lake: Mr. Scratch is obviously another name for the devil, and thus probably refers to nothing good. Whenever we hear his name, we don’t actually hear what’s really being said, we hear a scratching noise, like the word had been censored, or “scratched out,” thus we don’t know the real name that’s being said. When Wake sees Mr. Scratch in the Dark Place, he looks like Wake. Thomas Zane tells him that his friends will meet Mr. Scratch when Wake is gone. When Barbara Jagger disappeared into Cauldron Lake, a dark presence in her form came back. Are these clues? Maybe we’ll find out at some point, but it might turn out to be something very unpleasant. Maybe we should hope we’ll never have to find out. You have been warned.

http://helldescent.com/2011/01/29/remedy-interview-hello-mr-scratch/

[Master_Moridin]

From a new interview by HellDescent:

Sam Lake: Mr. Scratch is obviously another name for the devil, and thus probably refers to nothing good. Whenever we hear his name, we don’t actually hear what’s really being said, we hear a scratching noise, like the word had been censored, or “scratched out,” thus we don’t know the real name that’s being said. When Wake sees Mr. Scratch in the Dark Place, he looks like Wake. Thomas Zane tells him that his friends will meet Mr. Scratch when Wake is gone. When Barbara Jagger disappeared into Cauldron Lake, a dark presence in her form came back. Are these clues? Maybe we’ll find out at some point, but it might turn out to be something very unpleasant. Maybe we should hope we’ll never have to find out. You have been warned.

http://helldescent.com/2011/01/29/remedy-interview-hello-mr-scratch/

I don't know why, but i just can't take this response seriously. I have a feeling they were just restating the most popular theories.

[Master_Moridin]

I was thinking about Zane's line " That's Mr.----, he'll meet your friends when you're gone" and i believe i may come across something. what got me thinking was the 'when'. i now believe that when Zane says that, it's because he believes alan is going to die. Zane never found a way out, so it's possible to assume that he didn't believe alan could either. now the way this connects to Mr. Scratch has to do with my previous theory that Scratch was some sort of entity that copied a person. well my idea is that he effectively becomes someone, like the Dark Presence, he wears their skin so to speak. When they die, he becomes them, at least in the way that the DP became barbara. i think that that is the only way for entities in the Dark Place to leave it. they have to have an identity and body, otherwise they remain ideas so to speak, being of the Dark Place, a place of imagination and metaphor. I think that that's what happened to barbara. she drowned, but before she finally died, she slipped into the Dark Place, allowing the DP to steal her face, so when Zane tried to write her back, he brought forth the DP. Now, seeing as how Zane seemed to believe Alan would die, i wonder if perhaps time still affects a person while in the Dark Place. if so, then that means Zane himself would have died by now, which means that the Zane we see is an entity that took his form. So when Alan wrote about Zane, he was actually writing in this being. It would explain how he was able to become a source of light, being from the Dark Place would make him more moldable. this would also explain why he wouldn't be able to answer Alan's question about the clicker, cause this being wouldn't know everything about Zane(maybe)

effectively im trying to say that the Scratch may be trying to do with Alan what the DP did with Barbara.

geez i got to rambling. that's what i get for trying to piece together memories from last week when i first came up with this.

[RiseAndShine]

My thoughts: Mr. Scratch is essentially Alan Wake reborn (as in, starting from scratch), he is the true Alan that will emerge from the lake after having confronted and killed his ego, the false self-image that is causing all his mental torment and generally making him behave like an a-hole.

When Zane says that Scratch is the one Alan's friends will meet when he's gone, he doesn't mean physically gone - what he's hinting at is that Alan's identification with who he believes himself to be (at that point in the story) will be lost.

The whole story of Alan Wake will make a hell of a lot more sense if you read up on C.G. Jung, Joseph Campbell and ego death experience.

[AlexarowFS]

this would also explain why he wouldn't be able to answer Alan's question about the clicker, cause this being wouldn't know everything about Zane(maybe)

effectively im trying to say that the Scratch may be trying to do with Alan what the DP did with Barbara.



It does seem probable that Zane is actually just an image that the dark presence has "taken" from the real Zane. But Zane was always shrouded in light. Tht could mean that he wrote himself as the light in the darkness, it causes a balance. Thus why we can never see his face or any of his body; the suit is his protection against the waters of the lake, and inside the suit is only light.
And why does Zane have to be controlled by the dark presence. He could as easily have intentions of his own, that would be a suffice explanation of why he did not tell Alan about Mr. Scratch. Or maybe Zane was trying to protect Alan for the mean time.

[Master_Moridin]

It does seem probable that Zane is actually just an image that the dark presence has "taken" from the real Zane. But Zane was always shrouded in light. Tht could mean that he wrote himself as the light in the darkness, it causes a balance. Thus why we can never see his face or any of his body; the suit is his protection against the waters of the lake, and inside the suit is only light.
And why does Zane have to be controlled by the dark presence. He could as easily have intentions of his own, that would be a suffice explanation of why he did not tell Alan about Mr. Scratch. Or maybe Zane was trying to protect Alan for the mean time.

Once more, I wasn't saying the Dark Presence was controlling Zane, but that perhaps another entity besides the Dark Presence was wearing Zane's face.

[Hunter6]

"I actually found out something new , interesting. I don't know if it was mentioned here before , but in Ep3 , Alan gets a phone call of Alice, where she says: "Alan. Alan. I'm so afraid...keeps me in the dark.Please help me...I look at you, Alan, and it's not you...something else , looking out from behind your eyes..."
If that was a reference to Mr.Scratch (and I'm pretty sure it is!) , it pretty much turns the whole story. (well , maybe not the whole , but you know what I mean ) It means , that Mr.Scratch was there back then , maybe staying with Alice while she was gone?!
Well , actually , I don't really know what that means , but I hope I could help you thinking a bit further. I actually just signed up for writing this , thought this information could be important"

That was a post from a while back. I've been thinking about all of this, and I came to the same conclusion.

1) Mr. Scratch is evil. God knows what his original intention was to be, either as a distraction, or to be a "dyke in the floodwall" in case the Dark Presence came back through Rose (See last cutscene-When you see Rose standing with the lamp, Barbara is in the window right of her).

2) Mr. Scratch doesn't exist out of 'Night Springs'... So far. According to how I see it through the trailers, one mentions that Alan is trying to stop Scratch from getting at Alice (I believe it was a Gametrailer Walkthrough on youtube that said that). He is, for the moment, stuck in Night Springs with Alan because otherwise I think Barry would be a lot more concerned about the man hunting him down. But I think he's trying to work a way out somehow. Scratch is a copy of Alan that is also a psycopath. He's just as intelligent as Alan, and thusly will try to write his way into the real world.

3) Although the phone call mentioned in the quote is before Scratch's Creation, and the message was, evidently, the fabrication of Mott, it does seems almost prophetic. Scratch appears like Alan ("I look at you... and it's not you"), but acts different ("... Looking out behind your eyes."). The message was meant to unnerve Alan, but it seems to describe Scratch just as well.
To be honest, we don't know if Mott sent the message. We know that the lines came from Hartman's office, but just the way it is worded... Aside from the first three seconds ("I'm so afraid... Keeps me in the dark... Help me."), the message is more of a warning or ominous foreshadowing than a "Cooperate with them", or "I'm okay" sort of message, or even "Help".

Opinions?

[MikkiRMD]

"I actually found out something new , interesting. I don't know if it was mentioned here before , but in Ep3 , Alan gets a phone call of Alice, where she says: "Alan. Alan. I'm so afraid...keeps me in the dark.Please help me...I look at you, Alan, and it's not you...something else , looking out from behind your eyes..."
If that was a reference to Mr.Scratch (and I'm pretty sure it is!) , it pretty much turns the whole story. (well , maybe not the whole , but you know what I mean ) It means , that Mr.Scratch was there back then , maybe staying with Alice while she was gone?!

Spoilers ahoy. (I know this is the section of the forum where spoilers are okay, but even so, I want to give a bit of advance warning about this one.)

Still with us? Good!

Well, it's kind of thematic foreshadowing for Mr. Scratch, of course, but what that actually is is an attempt by Dr. Hartman to manipulate Wake. See, that's not really Alice calling Wake, it's Alice talking to Dr. Hartman on the phone -- it's just that Hartman's recorded the conversation, and then cut it up to make Wake think that Alice is telling him to cooperate with the purported kidnappers, and to ensure that Wake believes that Alice has been kidnapped.

You can find the original recording at the Cauldron Lake Lodge, and upon hearing it, Wake will comment on it, saying that he recognized Alice's phrases as the ones from the phone call he got... Actually, I found that part on YouTube, if you want to take a look (http://youtu.be/yXdHzV4KfQU?t=18m47s).

(Reading your post, I wasn't quite sure if you already knew this, so I apologize if I'm explaining something you already understand. =))

[Hunter6]

I understood that much, Mikki. It just seems a little... funny. A normal cut up would actually try to make the person more vulnerable and willing to cooperate, not attack their rescuer. I understand that Hartman made it, I'm just a little put off by the second half of it...

Also, I remember people talking earlier in this thread about the two paintings of the horsemen in black and white. I seem to have found a partial answer for this one. The black horseman is the album cover for Old God's In the Valley of my Soul or something like that. You can actually find it in the Anderson's main farm building on the staircase. That doesn't explain the white horse, however. I think the artist, who also was drawing plenty of convincing looking Taken, was also hinting that the "Old Gods know the Truth" there. The white horse, however, is still a mystery to me.

I do not know if Old Gods were making or had made a new album featuring a white horse, but perhaps it suggests enough in of itself. If I'm correct from reading this somewhere, that album had Poet and the Muse. The White Horse either would be the album that continued that story further in a new single, or was an album that they planned to release that never got that far down the line. The black and white horses also do signify Alan and Scratch-Identical in form, but different in "moral spectrum", if you will.

Opinions?

[MikkiRMD]

I understood that much, Mikki. It just seems a little... funny. A normal cut up would actually try to make the person more vulnerable and willing to cooperate, not attack their rescuer.

Well, bear in mind that at this point, Dr. Hartman still thinks that Wake has the manuscript. All he wants to do is keep the pressure on, to keep Wake thinking that the only way he can save Alice is to hand it over. It works, too -- Wake is definitely motivated as intended. Unfortunately, there are two problems with this plan: Wake doesn't have the manuscript, and the Dark Presence doesn't like Hartman's meddling (as Mott finds out to his cost near Mirror Peak).

[nickman317]

Well, bear in mind that at this point, Dr. Hartman still thinks that Wake has the manuscript. All he wants to do is keep the pressure on, to keep Wake thinking that the only way he can save Alice is to hand it over. It works, too -- Wake is definitely motivated as intended. Unfortunately, there are two problems with this plan: Wake doesn't have the manuscript, and the Dark Presence doesn't like Hartman's meddling (as Mott finds out to his cost near Mirror Peak).

Yeah, what a way to go for those two.

[Hunter6]

Very nicely put, Mikki. So, in essence, the Scratch reference was entirely unintentional and was a bit of dramatic foreshadowing not meant to occur.

But I'd like to know about the Wolf paintings a bit. The artist that drew the two horses, a homage to Scratch and Wake, drew not only Taken, but plenty of wolves. I'm not terribly sure what this means. Is it a hint of a future enemy? Or does it point at a future plot revelation?

[MikkiRMD]

Very nicely put, Mikki. So, in essence, the Scratch reference was entirely unintentional and was a bit of dramatic foreshadowing not meant to occur.

Oh, I wouldn't say it's unintentional, there's definitely an intentional thematic connection. There are many others: the cardboard cutout, the insane version of Wake on the TV screen you see in the DLC episodes, even the idea of Wake being a public figure, and people having all sorts of ideas about him, to mention a few. All of those are thematic links, and they are very much done on purpose, but they don't really refer to Mr. Scratch directly.

But I'd like to know about the Wolf paintings a bit.

Again, I really don't want to confirm or deny theories, so I'm afraid I won't comment on that. (See, if it was a hint about a future plot, I would spoil it -- and if I comment on everything except things that are future plots hints, that would become very obvious very quickly. Sorry!