[Jill]

Hello everyone! I’m back from my initial dive to crack Zane’s iceberg. As you can see from the date differences, it’s been about 2 days. And I’m here to update you on what I have found or shall I say haven’t found!

I still haven’t found any connection as to whether Thomas Zane has a hand in all of this. When I follow the “Paradox Theory” above, all I can see is Alan Wake. This is all Alan’s doing because it is Alan who wrote the “Departure” manuscript. And all the events in the Alan Wake Franchise, everything seems to be connected to the “Departure” manuscript. I have discovered something though about Thomas Zane’s connection with Alan Wake.

You see, the Anderson Brothers (Odin and Tor) keep calling Alan – “Tom!” Why are they calling Alan like he was “Thomas Zane” when it is obvious that Alan is not Zane? We have confirmed that Alan is not Thomas Zane’s son already. You could check it with these threads: (The Links are safe and they also belong in this forum)

http://forum.alanwake.com/showthread.php?t=4106&page=3

And Mikki also confirmed the timeline of events somewhere on this thread:

http://forum.alanwake.com/showthread.php?t=5630&page=5

So if we do the math, it is impossible for Alan to be Zane’s son because of the difference in Alan’s age (Birth date) and the date of Zane’s disappearance. So that is out of the question.

Did Alan Wake look like Thomas Zane? As I have read, some people believe that Alan is a reincarnation of Zane; he looks like a replica of Zane, which is why the Anderson Brothers kept calling him Thomas Zane because Alan reminded them of Zane. If this is true, there is one person who could prove this. The most reliable person in Bright Falls who could prove this is – “Cynthia Weaver!” How could Cynthia Weaver forget what Zane looked like? She was in love with Zane! She is the most reliable person to prove this theory!

But how come Cynthia Weaver did not mention that at all. If Alan’s similarity with Zane is so strong that the Anderson Brothers noticed it, how come Cynthia Weaver did not mention it at all? Not a single “squeak” from Cynthia Weaver! The bearer of the light and keeper of Zane’s secrets!

Alan met Cynthia Weaver 3 times in the game! 2 out of those 3 are really close encounters! They were actually talking to each other face to face and for long periods at a time. Cynthia even mentioned to Alan how “handsome” Zane was and that she was in love with him. This conversation took place while they were on their way from the Power Plant to the Well Lit Room. If Alan really looked like Thomas Zane, Cynthia weaver would have been all over Alan on their first meeting at the Diner. Just like Rose was when she first saw Alan at the Diner. But not from Cynthia. Not a squeak!

So, if Alan is not Zane’s son and Alan doesn’t look like Zane, why would the Anderson Brothers call him Thomas Zane, or Tom, or Zane for that matter?

When I come to think of it, was it metaphorical? Did the Anderson Brothers call Alan – “Tom” in a metaphorical way? If we follow the “Paradox Theory” above that the manuscript is coming true from the beginning up to the end of the game. Then it could be said that the “Departure” manuscript is the game. Or shall I say the “main game.” And who wrote the manuscript? Alan Wake!

So, is it possible that Alan wrote in his manuscript “Departure” the story that the Anderson Brothers should call him “Tom” in those scenes that we hear them call Alan – “Tom?” If Alan wrote this as part of the story in his manuscript and since everything that we hear and see is part of Alan’s manuscript, then is Alan trying to tell us indirectly through the Anderson Brothers that he is also Zane or that Zane is him? This is interesting!

I don’t want to jump into conclusions about this matter at this point yet! I need more proof. But this is really getting interesting! The more I follow the “Paradox Theory,” the more I become illuminated by the events of this fabulous Alan Wake Franchise!

Before I end this post, I would like to invite everyone to try it out. Test your theories against it. And if you find something interesting, you could always share your thoughts here! For some of you who still find it hard to believe that Alan could do this or just plain skeptical about this whole “Paradox Theory” being possible or impossible to happen. I have some really good materials that you could use as cross references in order to understand how Alan was able to manipulate reality.

You should watch the following movies:

1. The Butterfly Effect: – Please watch the first edition with Aston Kutcher. Here is the synopsis:

In the year 2002, Evan Treborn (Ashton Kutcher), blacks out frequently, often at moments of high stress. While entertaining a girl in his dorm room, he finds that when he reads from his adolescent journals, he travels back in time, and he is able to "redo" parts of his past, thereby causing the blackouts he experienced as a child. There are consequences to his choices, however, that then propagate back to his present life: his alternate futures vary from college student, to prisoner, to amputee. His efforts are driven by the desire to undo the most unpleasant events of his childhood which coincide with his mysterious blackouts, including saving his childhood sweetheart Kayleigh (Amy Smart) from being molested by her father (Eric Stoltz) and harassed by her aggressive brother (William Lee Scott).

The actions he takes, and those he enables others to take during his blackouts, change the timeline in the new future where he awakes. As he continues to do this he realizes that even though his intentions are good his actions have unforeseen consequences. Moreover, the assimilation of dozens of years' worth of new memories from the alternate timelines causes him brain damage and severe nosebleeds. Ultimately, he decides that his attempts to alter the past end up only harming those he cares about. But Evan realizes that the main cause of everyone's suffering in all the different timelines is himself.
At the conclusion of the film, Evan purposely travels back in time one final time to the first day he met Kayleigh. Scaring her away, he finally succeeds in saving Kayleigh's life. He then destroys all of his journals and memories so that he is not ever tempted again to make any more changes.


2. Back to the Future 2: - I guess most of you have seen this movie. I would like to express just 1 part of this movie that would pertain to the “Paradox Theory.”

If you recall, When Marty and Doc returns to their present year of 1985 after traveling to the future and then finds it totally different than what it was. They find their town full of crime and poverty and “Biff” is the new “Ruler” of the city. This happened because the “Old Biff” went back to the past to change “Young Biff’s” life. When “Young Biff” altered his past, he altered the present as well, thus erasing the “old past and present 1985” and changing it into a “new past and present 1985.” No parallel worlds or universes, just a “shift” into a different direction of the time-space continuum. And when you talk about Time-Space continuum, it only means one thing – “Quantum Physics!” As Doc explains to Marty: “At some point in the past, the timeline skewed into this tangent, creating an alternate 1985. Alternate to you and me, but reality for everyone else.”

These two movies are good examples to express how the “Paradox Theory” above is happening and how Alan was able to manipulate his reality. I’m not saying that this is exactly what is happening in the Alan Wake Franchise. I’m saying that this is the concept that would help you understand the possibility of the “Paradox Theory” explained above.

If Biff could do it, then what the heck! Alan should be able to do so as well! Biff did it with the use of the Almanac only. Alan Wake did it with something much more powerful! And that is the mystical power of the “Lake!”

“The 'Lake' is Powerful! It is Silent but Deadly!”

I hope you would understand it now much more clearly! To end this post, I would like to quote Night Springs - Quantum Suicide Episode:

“If our lives are already written, it would take a courageous man to change the script!”

Cheers! Until then…


(Please pardon my Wall of Text)

[Pickman]

Your theory is interesting, even though my monkey brain doesn't understand it 100%.

Alan doesn't know who Zane is right. He's a writer, he had a girl who drowned in the lake, similarities. What was Zane like as a person? So maybe he wrote Zane, to have some part of Alans personality, or some good qualities that Alan has. So now that Zane has some Alan inside him. The past Zane has some Alan too and the Anderson brothers feel the Zane vibe in Alan when he walks in the diner.

I mean it's a perfect (word missing in my brain) ground to work on?! If you know what I mean. So is he Zane, or goody good Alan. The light side of Alan.

Maybe someone understands what I'm trying to say and write it better.

[Jill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickman

Your theory is interesting, even though my monkey brain doesn't understand it 100%.

Alan doesn't know who Zane is right. He's a writer, he had a girl who drowned in the lake, similarities. What was Zane like as a person? So maybe he wrote Zane, to have some part of Alans personality, or some good qualities that Alan has. So now that Zane has some Alan inside him. The past Zane has some Alan too and the Anderson brothers feel the Zane vibe in Alan when he walks in the diner.

I mean it's a perfect (word missing in my brain) ground to work on?! If you know what I mean. So is he Zane, or goody good Alan. The light side of Alan.

Maybe someone understands what I'm trying to say and write it better.

Hey, Pickman! Your back! Finally Dude, you are starting to see the “Light!” WhooooHoooo!!!!!

Man, you’ve got yourself one heck of a theory! But remember Pickman, that is just a theory. A very good theory. We have to find some credible evidences about Zane to prove your theory and my theory about Zane. Alright?! At the moment, it is really hard to crack Zane’s iceberg! My theory about Zane that I posted above (post # 22) still remains a theory. And your excellent theory is based on my theory. We really have to prove my theory first so that we could also prove yours. But as of the moment, we really have nothing yet to work on. I will keep diving back to Alan’s and Zane’s icebergs and search for some cracks to prove both of our theories.

In the mean time, let us keep your theory alive. Don’t let the “Dark Presence” cast its “shadow” on you! You hear me Dude? Stay illuminated by the “Light!”

By the way, the “word” you are “missing from your brain” above could be: - “Theoretical.”

Like: - “It’s a perfect “theoretical” ground to work on?!” Am I right? Is that what you mean, Dude?

Anyway, I like your quotation at the bottom of your post! – “There's a dark presence among us. A wolf in sheep clothing. I will defeat you!” – I think this is genius, Pickman! The “Dark Presence” seems to have infiltrated our world. It has casts its shadow among all the Alan Wake followers. You are right, we have to defeat it! That is why you have to stay illuminated by the “Light!” Don’t get “Taken” again, Pickman. Stay in the “Light” Dude!

[Pickman]

I have my moments. Of course there's the fact that Cynthia didn't pickup the Zane vibe from Alan, but that could be explained by the Anderson brothers mind enhancing mushroom experiments and connecting with the universe man!

I don't take it too seriously, but it's damn fun, unless you go too deep. Anyways all we can do is guess and wait for the sequel.

Yeah there's something definitely messing with our minds here!

I just hope it hasn't infiltrated Remedy!!

[Jill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickman

I have my moments. Of course there's the fact that Cynthia didn't pickup the Zane vibe from Alan, but that could be explained by the Anderson brothers mind enhancing mushroom experiments and connecting with the universe man!

I don't take it too seriously, but it's damn fun, unless you go too deep. Anyways all we can do is guess and wait for the sequel.

Yeah there's something definitely messing with our minds here!

I just hope it hasn't infiltrated Remedy!!

You are funny, Dude! The world needs people like you! Take it easy, Pickman! Don’t forget to post when you discover something new. Alright?!

Talk to you later, Dude. Cheers!

[Jill]

Hello everyone! It’s me again. Back from another dive to crack Alan’s and Zane’s “icebergs.” Nothing to report yet about anything. I just want to share some of my thoughts to all of you. As Alan Wake has been metaphorical about what he writes in all of his works, I will try to follow suit and try to be as metaphorical as Alan is. I may not be as good as Alan Wake when it comes to the metaphorical style of writing, but I think what I am about to say here is somewhat metaphorical in nature.

To start this thought of mine, I would like to quote Alan Wake with the exact words that he said right after eliminating Barbara (Dark Presence) while writing the ending to his “Departure” manuscript. Alan said:

“There’s light and there’s darkness, cause and effect.”
“There’s guilt and there’s atonement.”
“But the scales always need to balance, everything has a price.”

These are the "Exact" words that Alan used. Now, I would like to express my own thoughts about this “balance.” We see and experience this balance everyday in our lives as well. Please let me express my thoughts:

There’s Light - There’s Darkness
“Light” represents “Good” - “Darkness” represents “Evil”

This is a concept that we also believe in our world. We believe that “Light” exist because of “Darkness” and vice versa. We cannot define these two entities without mentioning each other from their definitions. What is “Darkness?” – “Absence of Light!” What is “Light?” – “Something that ‘illuminates.’ From what? From Darkness!” See the balance? Both of them are suppose to be in equilibrium. Even to their definition. We also believe that these two entities could represent “Good” and “Evil” in our world. And from these two entities “Good” and “Evil,” many other balancing beliefs could also arise. Like:

Good – Evil
Moral – Immoral
Truth – Lie/Deceit
Love – Hate
Peace – War
Right – Wrong
“Guilty” of sin – “Atonement” of sin
Etc…

In our world, there are so many balancing entities that could arise just by following this “Light” vs. “Dark” metaphor. And in our world what governs all these balancing entities? – “Our Conscience!” We are aware of these balancing entities in our own world. We see them and we experience them! We struggle with them! Everyday of our lives in our very existence in this world. From the moment we are created from the dusts, up to the time we develop consciousness (Infancy,) up to the time we loose some consciousness (Senility,) up until the time when we return to the dusts from which we came, we are struggling with these “Balancing Entities!”

And what governs this “Balance?” – “Our Conscience.” We struggle everyday in our lives to follow “good” or “evil,” do “moral” or “immoral” acts, tell the “truth” or “lie,” do the “Right” thing or the “Wrong” thing. Our decisions between these “balancing entities” shapes our lives and it determines where we go or to what direction in life are we going.

And all of this is governed by our Conscience. And do you know what our “Conscience” is? It is that voice in our head that speaks to us and tells us what we really should do at a particularly given time or situation. Our “Conscience” is like a neutral “Scale” that tips to a direction and weighs the odds and consequences of the decisions that we make. Our “Conscience” is the voice in our head that makes as aware about the difference between choosing “Light” or “Darkness,” “Good” or “Evil,” “Right” or “Wrong,” so on, and so forth. And once we make a decision and choose, that’s where “Cause and Effect” comes in.

“If there’s Cause, then there’s Effect.”

When you choose “Good” (Cause) – People would love you (Effect.)
When you choose “Evil” (Cause) – People would hate you (Effect.)

When you choose “Right” (Cause) – People would praise you (Effect.)
When you choose “Wrong” (Cause) – People would punish you (Effect.)

When you are “Guilty” of a sin or wrongdoing (Cause), you have to “Atone” for that sin and wrongdoing (Effect). That is the “Price” you have to pay in life.

“When there’s Guilt, there’s Atonement – That is the Price that you pay!”
“Everything has a price.”

“You take a Life. You should repay with Life – That is the Price that you pay!”
“Everything has a price.”

These are the beliefs that we see and experience in our world! These are the “balancing entities” that we struggle in our world! We see and experience them every single day of our lives!

We may not know all of the answers to Life. And we may never know the answer to the meaning of “Life.” But one thing is for certain, “Our Life hangs in this Balance!” We see and experience them! Every single minute of everyday, here in our very own world called Earth!

So, what should we do about it?………………….“We should learn from it!”

You see, in the end, the balance between “Light” and “Darkness” is not so balance at all. Please let me explain in a metaphorical way:

I will tip the scale and throw this idea out of the box! What I mean is, for short, this balance between “Light” and “Darkness” could be unbalanced and yet still exist!

Ultimately, in the end, only “One” of these entities will prevail. And that depends on what our goal is in life. Some people choose to live in “Darkness” and some people choose to live in the “Light” To elaborate on this, I am going to need your vivid imagination!

Imagine a world full of “Darkness.” There is no “Light.” Imagine that “Light” does not exist in this world. No “Light” at all! Not even a twinkle of a single star! Just pure and plain “Darkness” all over this world! Now, “Imagine” that you live in this world! Can you picture it?!

Now, let’s reverse it. Imagine a world full of “Light.” There is no “Darkness” Imagine that “Darkness” does not exist in this world. No “Darkness” at all! All you see is the world surrounded by “Light” everywhere! You could see everything and everyone because of this “Light.” Now, “Imagine” that you live in this world! Can you picture it?!

Now, I will ask you – “Which of these two worlds would you prefer living?” – The world where only “Darkness” exists or the world where only “Light” exists?

I would choose the “Light” in a heartbeat anytime, any day!

You see what I did there? I just tipped the scale in favor of the “Light!” So, “Ultimately,” we don’t really need this balance between “Light” and “Darkness!” In Life, in all of our struggles in Life. In the end, only “Light” will prevail. That is the only way to live – “With the Light!” And that “balance” that we used to believe in, it doesn’t exist anymore.

So, you see, that is how I have understood the Alan Wake Franchise! It is not just a game. It is not just a franchise. It is a “Metaphor!” Alan Wake is a metaphor of “Life.” Now, choose your side in Life: “Light” or “Darkness?” The outcome of your decision is all up to you!

Now, going back to the game, is there such a symbolism of this “Light” and “Darkness” that we see in the game and the Franchise? What do they represent in the game and the Franchise? Is Thomas Zane representing “Light” and Barbara Jagger representing “Darkness?” And most importantly, what do these representations mean to Alan Wake? I will leave these questions for your thoughts, folks! After all it is Alan Wake who said:

“There’s light and there’s darkness, cause and effect.”
“There’s guilt and there’s atonement.”
“But the scales always need to balance, everything has a price.”

And to end this post, I would like to quote “Cynthia Weaver” from Episode 5:

“Always in the Light!”……(echo! Light, light, light, light, light, light, light,… ..)

Cheers Everyone! Until then…


(Please pardon my Wall of Text.)

[Pickman]

I had totally forgotten the muse effect, till I saw The Garret Show, Alan Wake trailer Salvation001 made.

Alice was Alans muse, so could the growing gap that Alan was building for Alice, be at least partially, reason for Alans lack of writing?

So if you consider the possibility for some kind of "overlapping" story lines. Like Zane has Alan qualities and Barbara has Alice yada yada.
We see Alice as a beautiful and light person and Alan a dark, mean person. Zane is a light person and Jagger is a dark person. It's like a mirror picture kinda thing.

Alan can't write, but as soon as he gets in touch with dark Barbara, he gets his mojo back and start to write again. He's now in touch with his dark side and takes influence from it... the dark muse. Of course every horrible thing he writes come to life and turn in to a bad thing...
So Alan wants to get back to the more positive side of things, because, well negativity is not that great in the long term of things.

This all is very meta and symbolic sense of course and all the other big words I don't know.

In terms of balance I see the thing like this. Alan needs to have some part of Zane and Alice needs a little Jagger, or maybe not... Jagger was destroyed.. so only the light remains. Maybe Alan needs to destroy him self, in order to become light, Zane?

This is very philosophical and the question is do we need the darkness. Must there be a balance? I know Jill asked the same question and I'm not sure... maybe, maybe not?! Do we appreciate the light, with out the darkness??

There's a nut for you to crack!!! Sorry for not being so thorough with the writing.

[Edit] Holy s#¤t balls!! What if the lamp lady is Alices fear of dark. The Anderson brother are the rock n roll side of Alan. Sheriff Braker is Alices protecting Alan side. What other characters are there?? Maybe we need to look at the other characters in order to truly see inside psyche of Alan and Alice. There could be some connection there! The Ranger, protecting the nature, Alan not showing hes true self to anyone, except maybe the diner girl (Alice). who he loves, or something like that.

Help me out Jill!!!

IT'S A BOOOKK!!!

no shit sherlock.

[Edit edit]

The F.B.I agent (alcoholism) almost shoots the radio guy (Fame, he's and old withering side of Alan who wants to be famous), but the sheriff (protecting Alice) saves him before old alcy kills him. HOOOLYYY SHIIITTT!!!!

The darkness kills the ranger (honesty, true self) after that, Alcoholism comes next and tries to kill Alan, after coffee gril (the fan, positive??) Alice gets squashed by Alans darkness. Alan tries to run away from old alcy and gets to the radio station. (look above). What happens next?!?!

JIIILLLLL!!!!!!!!

[Pickman]

Consider this. Hartman is the thing in your head that says, it's not done yet, you need to work it a little more. It's keeping the rockers, the impulse, the free flow that comes from creating things prisoner.
I play a guitar and I found that the best stuff. 90% comes from letting your creative juices flow.
After Hartman gets destroyed the rockers escape and Alan is actually smiling!!

Because the restrictor has been removed, that annoying editor. The rockers are free and the work is now coming down like a waterfall. Let your artistic juices flow baby!!

I LOVE IT!!

Sorry had to tend to real world a minute, damn you reality!!

Here we go!!

Zane is dead, why? Because Alan isn't writing anymore!! Zane is the writer, The brothers are the artist who knew Zane when Alan still wrote. They are ALAN! That's why the brothers are old, because Alan hasn't written in a long time and the artist Alan is slowly dying. But they kick ass now, that Hartman is no longer in the way. Alan is getting his flow back!!

In order too get Alice back, Alan has to change.
Rusty is the guardian of Alans true nature, he doesn't need him anymore, he wants to be fully open to Alice from now on. So bye bye Rusty!!

He need to get his job back, so bye bye Hartman. Release the Artist!!!

Nightingale (Alcoholism) bye bye, but Alcoholism never truly goes away, it's always in the dark waiting!

What Else??? He needed those things to happen in order to keep Alice.

The Diner scene in the beginning.
Rose is the teenage crazy love that Alice has for Alan and is kinda interested in Rusty, because Rose (Alice) wants to know the real Alan. If that makes sense. But Alice also loves the artist in Alan. The Diner is kinda a picture of the love of Alan and Alice has for each other, or a introduction.
Now I'm just rambling, that not what it is, but you see what I mean right!!

There's maybe something still missing, but I'm happy in what I realised.

[Jill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickman

I had totally forgotten the muse effect, till I saw The Garret Show, Alan Wake trailer Salvation001 made.

Alice was Alans muse, so could the growing gap that Alan was building for Alice, be at least partially, reason for Alans lack of writing?

So if you consider the possibility for some kind of "overlapping" story lines. Like Zane has Alan qualities and Barbara has Alice yada yada.
We see Alice as a beautiful and light person and Alan a dark, mean person. Zane is a light person and Jagger is a dark person. It's like a mirror picture kinda thing.

Alan can't write, but as soon as he gets in touch with dark Barbara, he gets his mojo back and start to write again. He's now in touch with his dark side and takes influence from it... the dark muse. Of course every horrible thing he writes come to life and turn in to a bad thing...
So Alan wants to get back to the more positive side of things, because, well negativity is not that great in the long term of things.

This all is very meta and symbolic sense of course and all the other big words I don't know.

In terms of balance I see the thing like this. Alan needs to have some part of Zane and Alice needs a little Jagger, or maybe not... Jagger was destroyed.. so only the light remains. Maybe Alan needs to destroy him self, in order to become light, Zane?

This is very philosophical and the question is do we need the darkness. Must there be a balance? I know Jill asked the same question and I'm not sure... maybe, maybe not?! Do we appreciate the light, with out the darkness??

There's a nut for you to crack!!! Sorry for not being so thorough with the writing.

[Edit] Holy s#¤t balls!! What if the lamp lady is Alices fear of dark. The Anderson brother are the rock n roll side of Alan. Sheriff Braker is Alices protecting Alan side. What other characters are there?? Maybe we need to look at the other characters in order to truly see inside psyche of Alan and Alice. There could be some connection there! The Ranger, protecting the nature, Alan not showing hes true self to anyone, except maybe the diner girl (Alice). who he loves, or something like that.

Help me out Jill!!!

IT'S A BOOOKK!!!

no shit sherlock.

[Edit edit]

The F.B.I agent (alcoholism) almost shoots the radio guy (Fame, he's and old withering side of Alan who wants to be famous), but the sheriff (protecting Alice) saves him before old alcy kills him. HOOOLYYY SHIIITTT!!!!

The darkness kills the ranger (honesty, true self) after that, Alcoholism comes next and tries to kill Alan, after coffee gril (the fan, positive??) Alice gets squashed by Alans darkness. Alan tries to run away from old alcy and gets to the radio station. (look above). What happens next?!?!

JIIILLLLL!!!!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickman

Consider this. Hartman is the thing in your head that says, it's not done yet, you need to work it a little more. It's keeping the rockers, the impulse, the free flow that comes from creating things prisoner.
I play a guitar and I found that the best stuff. 90% comes from letting your creative juices flow.
After Hartman gets destroyed the rockers escape and Alan is actually smiling!!

Because the restrictor has been removed, that annoying editor. The rockers are free and the work is now coming down like a waterfall. Let your artistic juices flow baby!!

I LOVE IT!!

Holy F@ck!!! Pickman! What did you do?! You’ve got some really serious sh*t coming out of that “Coconut” head of yours! Did you put “Lime” on it?!!! Is that what you did?!!! Did you “Put the Lime in your Coconut” head?!!! That is why you are fully “A.WAKE” now?!!!

Man, that is some serious sh*t you’ve got there! And you know what, you are probably correct! You are spot on with your analysis and your interpretations!

I’m like “The Old gods of Asgard” and you are like “Alan Wake.” I opened up a crack, and you freaking took it all the way!!! I opened up “The Flow-ing” stream of water and you've freaking gone “Water Falls” with it. Man, you are like Alan Wake writing in metaphors! Dude, that is awesome!!! What you did is freaking “AMAZING!!!”

I LOVE IT, TOO MAN!!!

You should become a writer, Pickman. Or if that is not your main goal in life, you could do it as a hobby. You have some serious “Cr@p Sh*t” in that “Coconut” of yours. I mean to say it as a “Complement!” Some “Good Sh*t” if you know what I mean?! And I sure hope it is not just because of the “Lime!” I believe you’ve got it inside of you. It is natural to you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickman

This is very philosophical and the question is do we need the darkness. Must there be a balance? I know Jill asked the same question and I'm not sure... maybe, maybe not?! Do we appreciate the light, with out the darkness??

I’m glad that you understand it, Pickman. I was speaking metaphorically. In our world, in our reality, these balancing entities, like “Light” and “Darkness” and all of the other balancing forces derived from these two entities, they exists in our world. We see them everyday. We feel them. And we struggle with them. This “Balance” exists in our world. And we “Need” this balance in our world to guide us into where and to what would happen to our lives. This “Balance” defines the meaning of these forces against each other, their “counterparts” so to speak.

How would we understand “Light” if there is no “Darkness” and vice versa?
How would we understand “Good” if there is no “Evil” and vice versa?
How would we understand “Right” if there is no “Wrong” and vice versa?
How would we understand “Truth” if there is no “Lie/Deceit” and vice versa?
How would we understand “Love” if there is no “Hate” and vice versa?

In our world, we are aware of this “balance.” We see it, we feel, and we struggle with these “Balancing Forces” every minute of everyday in our Lives. And we make decisions based on this “Balance.” And these decisions that we make shapes our Lives. Just as Alan Wake’s decisions shaped his Life. And what governs these decisions – “Our Conscience”

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickman

Must there be a balance?

Again, I was speaking metaphorically? “Ultimately,” in the end, probably by the end of our journey, this “Balance” could be broken. Yes, that’s right, this “balance” could be broken and only one (1) Entity will ultimately prevail. For me, that is “Light.”

If there is only “Light” and “Darkness” cease to exist, I could live with that. As a matter of fact, it is the only way that we should live. “Always in the Light!”

But if there is only “Darkness” and “Light” cease to exist, would you want to live in this world? You could if it exist, but is it really “Livable?” If it is, then I would not really consider it as “Living,” it would be more of a “Suffering!”

So, “Ultimately,” in the end, it is possible that only one would exist, and the “Balance” that we used to believe in, the “Balance” that we used to struggle with in Life, doesn’t exist anymore! Now, Choose your side in Life!

That’s just me breaking this “Balancing” metaphor, Pickman. In short, it’s just me breaking a metaphor while speaking in metaphors!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickman

What other characters are there?? Maybe we need to look at the other characters in order to truly see inside psyche of Alan and Alice. There could be some connection there!

Oh yes! Pickman. There are lots of connections! Like:

Barry– He could be the opposite of Dr. Hartman. You see, Dr. Hartman (like you’ve said above in your post) is like a “dark force” that forces Alan to do what he doesn’t want to do yet or he is not ready to do yet. So, Dr. Hartman is like keeping Alan imprisoned against his will. Forcing Alan to do only Dr. Hartman’s will instead of Alan’s will. While Barry on the other hand is like a “light force” encouraging Alan to be free. Guiding Alan to express himself freely on Alan’s terms. Barry never forced Alan to do Barry’s will. Barry was always there for Alan on Alan’s terms, even if Alan was going rock bottom. The opposing connection between these two characters to Alan is so strong that it actually reflects in Alan’s mind in the beginning of “The Writer” DLC. Do you remember the very first scene in “The Writer” DLC? It’s like Dr. Hartman and Barry are struggling for Alan’s attention in Alan’s head! Also in the main game, who saved Alan from Dr. Hartman in the Sheriff’s Headquarters? – “BARRY!” At the Cauldron Lake Lodge, who locked up Barry? – “DR. HARTMAN!” It’s like these two characters always meet in opposite directions. Does that have to do something with “Balance?”…….Hmmmm?!

Rose – Why does Alan hate Rose so much! One of her biggest fans. She even made a web page dedicated just to Alan Wake. If Alan is so successful, and all of his “successes” happened because of all of his fans and followers, why hate them so much?! And why Rose?! If you think about it, the “Rose – Alan – Alice” story is like a love triangle! And this parallels to the “Cynthia – Zane – Barbara” love triangle! Cynthia and Zane seem to have had a good relationship with each other. Even Cynthia mentions that Zane still communicates with her long after Zane disappeared into the deep, dark ocean green! But with Alan and Rose, it’s the opposite! Alan hated Rose, all the time! Did something happen between the two of them?! Something “Intimate?!” Something that we did not see?!

If we go back to the story of the main game, remember the time when Alan and Barry visited Rose at her trailer house? It was a trap! They were there because the “Dark Presence” is supposed to trap Alan Wake and get him to finish the manuscript. The “Dark Presence” got Alan Wake! The trap worked! But what did the “Dark Presence” do? The “Dark Presence” let Alan Wake go again. The “Dark Presence” sets him free again! When I think about this part of the story – “What the f@ck was that all about!” And why is Alan Wake in Rose’s bed!!! What the hell is Alan doing in Rose’s bed?!!! Barry was still there were he used to be when he passed out! Alan Wake passed out on the sofa! How the f@ck did Alan get to Rose’s bed. Did Rose bring Alan to her bed? To do what?! Did Rose trap Alan to bed him?!!!

Even Paul Randolph was suspicious about this! (in Alan Wake Files.) You know Paul, the manager of the Sparkling River Estates Trailer Park. Now, why would he be suspicious about something “Nasty” going on inside Rose’s house? He doesn’t know about the “Dark Presence.” In fact, he doesn’t believe in these stories about Barbara Jagger! He tells Alan and Barry that these stories are just myth! Folk Tales, not real! So, what does he mean by “Nasty” going on inside Rose’s trailer house?! Is he pertaining to something malicious and immoral acts going on inside between Alan and Rose?!

Now, here is the puncher question! If we follow the “Paradox Theory” above, the manuscript was written by Alan. Now the story of the manuscript is coming true from the beginning of the main game up to the end. Alan wrote this story in the manuscript. Therefore, the story above about Alan visiting Rose is part of the story of the manuscript! Alan wrote this story about him visiting Rose in his manuscript, and it came true! Now, why would Alan write that particular nonsense plot in his manuscript? Is he trying to tell us something? Something about him and Rose?!

Is this the reason why Alan hated Rose? Did something happened between both Alan and Rose and then Alice eventually found out about it? Is this part of the “Paradox Theory” story that Alan is trying to hide from us?! Is Rose the reason why Alan’s marriage with Alice seems to be dissolving and that Alice found somebody because Alan did this to her?! Aside from the “Guilt” of “theoretically” harming Alice in the end, this “theoretical relationship” with Rose, is this also part of Alan’s “Guilt – Atonement” metaphor that he mentioned at the end of the game?! Is this the reason why Alan “Hated” Rose so much, it’s because of his “Guilt?!” His “Guilt” that drove Alice “His Muse” to stray far away from him into another man’s arms. And that “Guilt” eventually drove Alan to harm his wife, Alice, and lost her forever!

Now, this is the same “Guilt” that drives Alan to “Save” Alice. The same “Guilt” that drives Alan to write his manuscript in a manner that when the power of the “Lake” is applied to it, it will eventually come true and bring Alice back to Life again!

So, Pickman! If we follow the “Paradox Theory” above, all this story about Rose and Alan is gone. Alan has erased it as well, just like he erased the story about him harming Alice. We did not see it and we may never see it anymore. All of this is buried underneath Alan’s “Iceberg.” That is Hemingway’s “Iceberg Theory.”

There are probably more connections between the characters and Alan Wake, Pickman. We just have to look for it. So, go for it, Dude! Search it! Search It!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickman

IT'S A BOOOKK!!!

Hell yeah! It’s a Book!!! You are right, Pickman! It’s a bloody BOOK!!!

A book with a story that is coming true inside this book with a story that is coming true inside this book with a story that is coming true inside this book with a story that is coming true inside this book with a story that is coming true inside this book with a story that is coming true inside this book…

Does this look familiar? There is actually a manuscript page that says the same thing. Here it is:


Wake Reads a Page

I lifted the page in front of my eyes and read it. In it, I lifted the page in front of my eyes and read it. In it, I lifted the page in front of my eyes and read it. In it, I lifted the page in front of my eyes and read it. In it, I lifted the page in front of my eyes and read it. In it, I lifted the page in front of my eyes and read it.


The page above is from Episode 3 and could only be found in “Nightmare Mode.”

You are absolutely correct, Pickman. It is a Book! To add more clues to your theory, do you have the Xbox Alan Wake Collectors Limited Edition? What is the “Design” of the “Package?” – the Collectors Edition package looks like a “BOOK!” Do you see it?! The box looks like a “BOOK!”

You are damn right, Pickman! – It’s a bloody “BOOK!” A book that Alan Wake wrote! Or did he?!!!!!...

Now go tell your friends, Spread the Word, Dude! SPREAD THE WORD!!!

Cheers, Dude!


(Again, please pardon my Wall of Text.)

[MikkiRMD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

Rose – Why does Alan hate Rose so much!

What makes you think he hates her? Sure, Wake doesn't have much patience and he's at a low point of his life, and he very much wants to be left alone, but of course Rose doesn't really know that, and Wake finds that very annoying -- but that's not hatred. In fact, he expresses sympathy towards her at the trailer park when he realizes that her mind has been messed with, even though what she's done with the drugged coffee has been a tremendous setback for him.

Quote:

The trap worked! But what did the “Dark Presence” do? The “Dark Presence” let Alan Wake go again. The “Dark Presence” sets him free again!

Well, I think that's a kind of a strange interpretation, given that what actually happens during that scene is that Zane gets Wake to turn the lights on. ("It's coming for you, hiding in my Barbara's skin. I'm too weak to stop it. You must turn the lights on.")

[Jill]

Hi there, Mikki! Glad you could join us here again!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikkiRMD

What makes you think he hates her? Sure, Wake doesn't have much patience and he's at a low point of his life, and he very much wants to be left alone, but of course Rose doesn't really know that, and Wake finds that very annoying -- but that's not hatred. In fact, he expresses sympathy towards her at the trailer park when he realizes that her mind has been messed with, even though what she's done with the drugged coffee has been a tremendous setback for him.

I know Mikki, “Hate” is a pretty strong word. Alright Mikki, Let’s change that for a bit with – “Standoffish, Aloof, Disinterested, Reserved, Detached, Indifferent, Distant, Haughty, etc.” The meaning and interpretation seems to be the same to me even when I change the word “Hate” to these words.

Now, do you know why I used the word “Hate?” If we go back to Episode 2, the scenes where Alan and Barry are driving the yellow pick-up truck to get to Elder Woods Park to meet Rusty. When Alan and Barry got out of the truck, who was the first person they meet? Rose Marigold! When Rose greeted them, how did Alan respond? – With “Sarcasm!” And when Alan and Barry got in the Main Cottage were Rusty is, do you know what was Alan’s first words to describe Rose? Alan said – “What an Airhead!” Alan called Rose an “AIRHEAD!”

Now, the last time I checked, the Alan Wake game was set in the USA. Washington State and New York State to be exact. In the US of A, most Americans would interpret “AIRHEAD” as “STUPID.” The rest of the Americans would interpret “AIRHEAD” as just plain “DUMB!” Now in any of these interpretations, “AIRHEAD” is also a pretty “strong” word to use to describe a person. Sometimes, Americans use this word as a joke to people that they know – “Really Close Friends” or “Immediate Relatives.” But most of the time, this is a very “Insulting” word. Meant to be used for people that you “Hate.” “Stupid” and “Dumb” are very “Hateful” words to use to people you don’t really know! They are just as “Insulting” as saying “AIRHEAD” to them.

You see, in America, it is a free country. And Americans are free to say whatever they want to say. But Americans don’t just say “AIRHEADS” to people they don’t know. Unless that person really did something to them, and that it merits the insult. In short, you must really hate that person to call them “AIRHEADS!” Americans are still respectful when it comes to insulting somebody with that word. Sometimes, you could actually get in trouble when you use that word. You know why? Because it is like calling them “STUPID!” and “DUMB!” Now, that would really hurt! And that is a pretty “HATEFUL” word!

So, even though Alan did not say it in front of Rose, Alan said it in front of Barry! And I heard it! To me that is “Hateful” enough! Even Barry objected to Alan Wake about his insult to Rose! That is why I used the word “HATE.” And my theory above about Rose and Alan still stands. I still interpret it with the same interpretations.

Now when it comes to Alan’s sympathy with Rose, he did not really express it to Rose personally. Alan was expressing it to himself! What good is that? Alan’s “ASSHOLENESS” towards Rose outshines his “goodness” towards Rose. In fact, Alan was “never” good with Rose at all!

That is why I believe my theory above about Rose and Alan still stands with me. After all Mikki, All of this is just a “theory.” This is how I see it; this is how I will interpret it. If you ask other Alan Wake followers, they may have a different point of view. Different than how I see it. But for me, this is what I see now that fits my theory. I hope you could respect that the way you respect other people’s theories as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikkiRMD

Well, I think that's a kind of a strange interpretation, given that what actually happens during that scene is that Zane gets Wake to turn the lights on. ("It's coming for you, hiding in my Barbara's skin. I'm too weak to stop it. You must turn the lights on.")

That happened in Alan’s “Dream.” I understand Zane’s intention of warning Alan about Barbara coming for him. That warning is for Alan’s point of view. But for my point of view, Barbara (Dark Presence) already got Alan. Barbara’s (Dark Presence’s) plan to trap Alan worked! This is my point of view, and not Alan’s. As I understood, Barbara (Dark Presence) did this particular task to get Alan to finish writing the manuscript. But nothing really came out of it. Alan was passed out for the entire day. The “Entire Day” and nothing really came out of it!

So, why bring Alan to Rose, set a trap and then do nothing about it? And then when Zane showed up in Alan’s dream to warn him and tells Alan to turn on the light, Barbara (Dark Presence) was also in that dream! She knows about Zane warning Alan in that Dream. And Barbara (Dark Presence) is actually right beside Alan while he was asleep. Barbara (Dark Presence) even whispered to Alan – “Back to work, Boy!” – It seems like Barbara (Dark Presence) was in control of the whole situation. Was Barbara (Dark Presence) responsible for waking up Alan with her whisper before Alan turned the lights on? Then why wake up Alan. Why let Alan go?

That led me to the conclusion that this entire thing was a plot hole written by Alan. The Dark Presence’s plan to trap Alan by using Rose so Alan could finish the manuscript and then led to nothing work done for the Dark Presence at all is an anomaly.

Here is the ultimate puncher. Alan wrote all of this in the “Departure” manuscript! This plot hole about him going to Rose’s trailer and getting trapped by Barbara (Dark Presence) and then ending up doing nothing for her is Alan’s story. Alan wrote this story! In his manuscript! Why? To tell us something? Why did Alan write a plot hole that seems to be useless and meaningless to the entire purpose of the plot?

And there’s the question of Alan lying in Rose’s bed. What was that all about? Why is Alan in Rose’s bed? How did he get there? Barbara (Dark Presence) lifted Alan there? To do what, write the manuscript? If Rose did it, I mean lifted Alan to her bed, why would she do that? To what purpose? Because he cares about Alan Wake and he wants him to get comfortable? Rose seems to be out of her wits still even when Alan came about and regained his consciousness. So how could Rose care to think about Alan’s comfort if she can’t even control herself?

This entire plot about Rose and Alan in the trailer is all a mystery. And Alan Wake wrote all of this in his “Departure” manuscript. This is all Alan Wake’s story because Alan Wake wrote the “Departure” manuscript. So, judging by Alan’s style of writing, a “plot hole” could be just as good as a “metaphor.” And when Alan writes a “metaphor” then maybe this “plot hole” has a meaning to him. And what does it mean to Alan Wake? We just don’t know yet. Or maybe we will never know because Alan has already erased it. All we could do for know is speculate!

That’s it Mikki, this is all about theories! It could be right or it could be wrong. And I think there is nothing wrong with any speculations, right? Even when it is wrong, it is still just speculations. But if it is right, it still remains as speculation as well until proven right.

So for me all of these theories that I mentioned above on post # 49 about Rose and Alan still stands as my theories. That’s how I see it, that’s how I interpret it. After all they are just “theories” Mikki. Just “Theories.”

It is always a pleasure talking to you Mikki. Thanks for everything! Until next time...

Cheers!

[Pickman]

Jill, you totally gave some rational meaning to my rambling and your theory comes more and more alive.
Yeah that's what Rose is!!!! Of course!!! Heureka!!

No I haven't thought about serious writing, because well..I suck with words. I need other outlets for my thoughts

Here's another fun coincidence.
When Alan starts to write again, Zane ascends from the depths, the writer returns.

When Alan drinks the moonshine in the brothers cottage, Nightingale is appears.

Freaky stuff.

[Jill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickman

Here's another fun coincidence.
When Alan starts to write again, Zane ascends from the depths, the writer returns.

When Alan drinks the moonshine in the brothers cottage, Nightingale is appears.

Freaky stuff.

What the F@ck!!! Pickman! You did it again!!! You found “Symbolism” to the characters!

Check this out, Dude. Is this what you are trying to say?!

Alan starts to write again – Zane “appears” (Writer’s Bloc)
Alan starts to drink again – Nightingale “appears” (Alcoholism)
Alan dreams of Darkness – Light “appears” in his dream (Dark vs. Light)
Alan meets Dr. Hartman – Barry “appears” (Dark vs. Light)
Alan meets Rose – Alice “Disappears!” (Temptation and Guilt)
Rose meets Alan – Rusty “Disappears” (Bad boy vs. Good boy)
Alice is Back! – Alan “Disappears!” (Guilt and Atonement!)

Cause and Effect! Pickman! It’s called “CAUSE and EFFECT!” Alan said that!!!

Holy F@ck, Pickman!!! I got it! I know exactly what you are trying to say!!! You are a freaking “Genius!!!” You know that! F@ck, you could see through Alan Wake, his work, and more!!! I knew you have it in you!

I know this is all just “theoretical,” but “Sh*t, you really nailed this one!!! I got it! It’s called “Symbolism!”

It’s “Freaky” stuff, but it makes sense! A lot of sense! It makes sense to you, it makes sense to me! That is a good start, right?!

Pickman, Dude! I just want to let you know that you really did something good here! I appreciate it, Man! Keep it up, Dude! And don’t forget to post back when you discover something interesting. Cool?! Alright!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickman

Jill, you totally gave some rational meaning to my rambling and your theory comes more and more alive.

I hope so, Pickman. I hope so! You know, Dude, as we go through Life, the unanswered mystery is what stays with us the longest, and it’s what we’ll remember in the end. And as we experience and re-experience Alan Wake, there’s always a long journey through the night back into the light. As we journey with Alan Wake, all we have is the “Light.” And that “light” for me right now, is the “Paradox Theory.” It is this “theory” that guides me when these “unanswered mysteries” haunt me through the night! I hope it becomes a guiding “light” to you as well in your journey through the night back into the “Light!”

Cheers, Dude!


“Safe in the Light. Always in the Light!” – Cynthia Weaver, Alan Wake: Episode 5.

[Mirror Peak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

“Standoffish, Aloof, Disinterested, Reserved, Detached, Indifferent, Distant, Haughty, etc.” The meaning and interpretation seems to be the same to me even when I change the word “Hate” to these words.

I hate to interject again, because you're probably going to just believe whatever you want to regardless of what anyone says (even the person who made up what you're talking about), but those words do not mean the same thing as hate. Here are the definitions of hate and indifference if you really need them.

hate   [heyt] Show IPA verb, hat·ed, hat·ing, noun
verb (used with object)
1. to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest: to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.
2. to be unwilling; dislike: I hate to do it.

in·dif·fer·ent   [in-dif-er-uhnt, -dif-ruhnt] Show IPA
adjective
1. without interest or concern; not caring; apathetic: his indifferent attitude toward the suffering of others.
2. having no bias, prejudice, or preference; impartial; disinterested.
3. neither good nor bad in character or quality; average; routine: an indifferent specimen.
4. not particularly good, important, etc.; unremarkable; unnotable: an indifferent success; an indifferent performance.
5. of only moderate amount, extent, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

But for me, this is what I see now that fits my theory.

And that's really the problem. You're trying to change things you see so that they fit what you say, not changing what you say to fit what you see.

[Jill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirror Peak

I hate to interject again, because you're probably going to just believe whatever you want to regardless of what anyone says (even the person who made up what you're talking about), but those words do not mean the same thing as hate. Here are the definitions of hate and indifference if you really need them.

Dude, you got it wrong again. You see, I said this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

Let’s CHANGE that for a bit with – “Standoffish, Aloof, Disinterested, Reserved, Detached, Indifferent, Distant, Haughty, etc.” The meaning and interpretation seems to be the same to me even when I CHANGE the word “Hate” to these words.

Now go and insert these words and switch them to change the word “HATE” on this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

Rose – Why does Alan hate Rose so much! One of her biggest fans. She even made a web page dedicated just to Alan Wake. If Alan is so successful, and all of his “successes” happened because of all of his fans and followers, why hate them so much?! And why Rose?! If you think about it, the “Rose – Alan – Alice” story is like a love triangle! And this parallels to the “Cynthia – Zane – Barbara” love triangle! Cynthia and Zane seem to have had a good relationship with each other. Even Cynthia mentions that Zane still communicates with her long after Zane disappeared into the deep, dark ocean green! But with Alan and Rose, it’s the opposite! Alan hated Rose, all the time! Did something happen between the two of them?! Something “Intimate?!” Something that we did not see?!

If we go back to the story of the main game, remember the time when Alan and Barry visited Rose at her trailer house? It was a trap! They were there because the “Dark Presence” is supposed to trap Alan Wake and get him to finish the manuscript. The “Dark Presence” got Alan Wake! The trap worked! But what did the “Dark Presence” do? The “Dark Presence” let Alan Wake go again. The “Dark Presence” sets him free again! When I think about this part of the story – “What the f@ck was that all about!” And why is Alan Wake in Rose’s bed!!! What the hell is Alan doing in Rose’s bed?!!! Barry was still there were he used to be when he passed out! Alan Wake passed out on the sofa! How the f@ck did Alan get to Rose’s bed. Did Rose bring Alan to her bed? To do what?! Did Rose trap Alan to bed him?!!!

Even Paul Randolph was suspicious about this! (in Alan Wake Files.) You know Paul, the manager of the Sparkling River Estates Trailer Park. Now, why would he be suspicious about something “Nasty” going on inside Rose’s house? He doesn’t know about the “Dark Presence.” In fact, he doesn’t believe in these stories about Barbara Jagger! He tells Alan and Barry that these stories are just myth! Folk Tales, not real! So, what does he mean by “Nasty” going on inside Rose’s trailer house?! Is he pertaining to something malicious and immoral acts going on inside between Alan and Rose?!

Now, here is the puncher question! If we follow the “Paradox Theory” above, the manuscript was written by Alan. Now the story of the manuscript is coming true from the beginning of the main game up to the end. Alan wrote this story in the manuscript. Therefore, the story above about Alan visiting Rose is part of the story of the manuscript! Alan wrote this story about him visiting Rose in his manuscript, and it came true! Now, why would Alan write that particular nonsense plot in his manuscript? Is he trying to tell us something? Something about him and Rose?!

Is this the reason why Alan hated Rose? Did something happened between both Alan and Rose and then Alice eventually found out about it? Is this part of the “Paradox Theory” story that Alan is trying to hide from us?! Is Rose the reason why Alan’s marriage with Alice seems to be dissolving and that Alice found somebody because Alan did this to her?! Aside from the “Guilt” of “theoretically” harming Alice in the end, this “theoretical relationship” with Rose, is this also part of Alan’s “Guilt – Atonement” metaphor that he mentioned at the end of the game?! Is this the reason why Alan “Hated” Rose so much, it’s because of his “Guilt?!” His “Guilt” that drove Alice “His Muse” to stray far away from him into another man’s arms. And that “Guilt” eventually drove Alan to harm his wife, Alice, and lost her forever!

Now, this is the same “Guilt” that drives Alan to “Save” Alice. The same “Guilt” that drives Alan to write his manuscript in a manner that when the power of the “Lake” is applied to it, it will eventually come true and bring Alice back to Life again!

Now, after changing the word “hate” read the entire, post again. To me the meaning and interpretation of the entire post is the same. The MEANING of the MESSAGE is THE SAME in my interpretation! That’s it!

I said “CHANGE” the word!

I did not say that “Hate” also means this – “Standoffish, Aloof, Disinterested, Reserved, Detached, Indifferent, Distant, Haughty, etc.”

Where did you get that idea?! I never said that!

No way, Dude! You are putting words into my post (Mouth!) that I did not really say! You read it wrong, Dude!

Now, do you know why I still stick to my theory and why I used that word? Here, read post 51 above, Dude. Oh I’m sorry. You already did! But the “message” did not go through!

I don’t know where you are from, but in my world, an “Insult” is an “Insult.” And that is “HATRED” enough!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirror Peak

And that's really the problem. You're trying to change things you see so that they fit what you say, not changing what you say to fit what you see.

Dude, we are back at this again?! I guess you never learn, huh?! The game has been presented to us. It is already there. I just made my interpretation out of it! What more is there to it! This is really dragging already.

My “Theory” still stands for me. Unless you could present to me a more valid one that would satisfy my curiosity, then I’ll consider it!

Do you have one that you could present to me? Show it to me! That way we can end this discussion between us!

Besides, this is just a theory! Why do you keep coming back here and poke me about it?! And why do you keep asking things that you already know?! – My “Theory” stands for me until I find something else that would make sense to me! This is a FREE WORLD! I can believe what I want to believe as long as it makes sense to me!

You are dragging this, Dude!

[Mirror Peak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

The MEANING of the MESSAGE is THE SAME in my interpretation! That’s it!

I don't think that really makes sense. Like, if Alan was disinterested in Rose instead of hating her after they had an affair (It doesn't really make a lot of sense to me for someone to cheat on and then kill their wife, and then feel so terribly guilty that they try to write her back into existence, but feel nothing for the person they cheated with. Hate would actually make more sense in this context, but that's something else), then why include her in the story at all? Especially if he felt guilty about cheating on his wife. Wouldn't he write her out to fix things between him an Alice?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

My “Theory” still stands for me. Unless you could present to me a more valid one that would satisfy my curiosity, then I’ll consider it!

Do you have one that you could present to me? Show it to me! That way we can end this discussion between us!

Well, let me ask you this; is there anything in Alan Wake that can't be explained except by your theory?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

Besides, this is just a theory! Why do you keep coming back here and poke me about it?!

I'm just pointing out what I see wrong with it. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, I just thought you were trying to get a conversation going about this.

[Jill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirror Peak

I don't think that really makes sense. Like, if Alan was disinterested in Rose instead of hating her after they had an affair (It doesn't really make a lot of sense to me for someone to cheat on and then kill their wife, and then feel so terribly guilty that they try to write her back into existence, but feel nothing for the person they cheated with. Hate would actually make more sense in this context, but that's something else), then why include her in the story at all? Especially if he felt guilty about cheating on his wife. Wouldn't he write her out to fix things between him an Alice?

Dude, I told you, it doesn’t matter if we exchange the words. The meaning of the context of the entire message is the same to me! I also told you why I used the word “Hate.”

Now, the last time I checked, the Alan Wake game was set in the USA. Washington State to be exact. I live in New York, and in this Country, we have such a thing called “HATE CRIMES” This is the term “Cops” and “News Casters” use. It is even used in the “Court of Law” in this Country. Now, look it up. I will give you an example:


In crime and law, hate crimes (also known as bias-motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her perceived membership in a certain social group, usually defined by racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, class, ethnicity, nationality, age, sex, gender identity, social status or political affiliation.

A hate crime is a legal category used to described bias-motivated violence: "assault, injury, and murder on the basis of certain personal characteristics: different appearance, different color, different nationality, different language, different religion."

"Hate crime" generally refers to criminal acts that are seen to have been motivated by bias against one or more of the types above, or of their derivatives. Incidents may involve physical assault, damage to property, bullying, harassment, verbal abuse or insults, or offensive graffiti or letters (hate mail).


For me, what Alan said about Rose in Elder Woods Park is an “Insult” similar to what is explained above. And what do we call this type of insult here, “HATE CRIMES.” Why, because they are derive from “HATRED.” And in this Country of ours, we don’t tolerate that! We make “Laws” against that! Got it?!

Now, as to why Alan wrote this story that way? We don’t know that? Maybe he erased all the facts of this story between him and Rose. Again, I just interpreted what I saw in the game. That’s it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirror Peak

Well, let me ask you this; is there anything in Alan Wake that can't be explained except by your theory?

Guess what, I don’t need to explain anything with my “Theory.” I’ve mentioned it before; this theory will not explain all the mysteries of the Alan Wake Franchise. It would only explain “The Flow” and the connection of the entire Franchise. Again, that is why it’s called a “theory” because these are all just speculations! A “Theory” is not “The Answer.” It’s a theory! This “Theory” is what I believe in! It makes sense to me!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirror Peak

I'm just pointing out what I see wrong with it. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, I just thought you were trying to get a conversation going about this.

Cool! I always knew you were hesitant about this “Paradox Theory.” I always respect that. I always do! I am not pointing a gun at you and push you to believe it. You can believe whatever you want to believe. Remember, it is I who always say – It’s a “FREE WORLD!” – Everybody here is free to choose what they want to believe!

For me, I don’t see anything wrong with it, yet. The “Paradox Theory” still stands. Unless I find something that interests me, then maybe I will consider it! Until then…

Cheers!

[Mirror Peak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

The meaning of the context of the entire message is the same to me!

Okay, regardless of what it means, you understand that implies Alan wrote someone who basically broke up his marriage into the story to be annoyed by her, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

No, as to why Alan wrote this story that way? We don’t know that? Maybe he erased all the facts of this story between him and Rose. Again, I just interpreted what I saw in the game. That’s it!

If Alan has no reason to do something, then it doesn't really make sense for him to do it. The issue with your theory is Alan has no motive, and instead of just incorporating one or changing the theory to reflect what happened, you keep telling me it's all your opinion or say it's Remedy's job to explain it for you. Which is lame to do, and won't help your theory make sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

Guess what, I don’t need to explain anything with my “Theory.” I’ve mentioned it before; this theory will not explain all the mysteries of the Alan Wake Franchise. It would only explain “The Flow” and the connection of the entire Franchise. Again, that is why it’s called a “theory” because these are all just speculations! A “Theory” is not “The Answer.” It’s a theory! This “Theory” is what I believe in! It makes sense to me!

Well it's supposed to explain what's happening in the game and the story and stuff. I'm pointing out where and how it doesn't do that well. Use it constructively to improve your idea or not, it doesn't really matter to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

For me, I don’t see anything wrong with it, yet.

You kind of give off the vibe that you really really don't want that to happen.

[Jill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirror Peak

Okay, regardless of what it means, you understand that implies Alan wrote someone who basically broke up his marriage into the story to be annoyed by her, right?

If Alan has no reason to do something, then it doesn't really make sense for him to do it. The issue with your theory is Alan has no motive, and instead of just incorporating one or changing the theory to reflect what happened, you keep telling me it's all your opinion or say it's Remedy's job to explain it for you. Which you can totally do, but those won't help your theory make sense.

Well it's supposed to explain what's happening in the game and the story and stuff. I'm pointing out where and how it doesn't do that well. Use it constructively to improve your idea or not, it doesn't really matter to me.

You kind of give off the vibe that you really really don't want that to happen.

All I know is that Alan’s “Iceberg” exists in the “Paradox Theory” and this could all be hidden underneath, I just interpret what I see in the game. It’s all “Speculation.” For all we know Alan is expressing his inner “Psyche” to us. Again, this is also speculation! These are all just theories!

Dude, I will say this again. You can believe whatever you want to believe! You are free to do so. For now, my “theory” still stands. It makes sense to me. If you have your own theory, show me and post it here and I will take a look at it.

I guess for now, the best thing for us is that you believe what you want to believe and I will believe in mine as well. Then let’s wait if there is a sequel and then re-adjust our theories if we are given new information.

Look, it’s a weekend; I would like to spend time with my family now. If you have a theory like what I did from the beginning of this thread, then show it to me here. I will try to respond to your questions above on Monday. But it seems like I just did that above.

In the meantime, the “Paradox Theory” is the one that I will follow. It still stands good to me! Enjoy your weekend! Talk to you later.

Cheers!

[Mirror Peak]

My theory is what happened in the game is exactly what really happened. I think that covers all the bases pretty well.

[Jill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirror Peak

My theory is what happened in the game is exactly what really happened. I think that covers all the bases pretty well.

Cool, Mirror Peak. You have finally posted something about your theory. Hold on; let me take a look at it again…

Ah yes! You believe that what “happened” in the game is exactly what really “happened.”

I think that our theory is kind of similar. I also believe that the events in the game “happened.” And they “happened” because Alan Wake wrote the story of the game in his “Departure” manuscript. When the “mystical power” of the “Lake” took effect on Alan’s “Departure” manuscript, the story came true. Hence, the events of the game “happened.” Because it “happened” like this, the “Paradox Theory” was formulated. And this “theory” was formulated because it makes the entire Franchise much more sensible to me.

You see, your theory and my theory are somewhat similar. The only difference is that in my theory, I elaborated on it a little bit to make it sensible to me.

That settles it then. You can continue to follow your theory and I will follow mine. All we have to do now is wait for a sequel. And if we are presented with new information, then we could decide if our theories still works and makes sense to us or not. From there, we could stick with our theories or re-adjust them as needed. You know why? Because these are all just theories! Alright?!

Now, Mirror Peak, “Life” is too short for all of us. We have to move on from here. Why don’t we find something interesting to discuss. Maybe dig a little bit more in the Alan Wake Franchise. Who knows, maybe we could find something interesting that we haven’t analyzed and discussed yet. Okay, Dude?!

Now, in the mean time, I have the “Paradox Theory.” This “theory” still stands with me, all of it! When the sequel comes out, then we could re-evaluate our theories and re-adjust them when needed. After all, these are just “Theories.” And as such, nothing here is set in stone!

It is always a pleasure talking to you, Mirror Peak. Happy Questing!

Cheers!

[Mirror Peak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

You see, your theory and my theory are somewhat similar. The only difference is that in my theory, I elaborated on it a little bit to make it sensible to me.

Okay so, what in the game didn't make sense until you explained it that way?

[Jill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirror Peak

Okay so, what in the game didn't make sense until you explained it that way?

No. I did not say it that way.

I made up something that would make sense to “me.” A “theory” that would kind of guide “me” through the Franchise.

Now, the game seems to be designed as a “Mystery.” Even Alan Wake kind of mentions that in the beginning of the game as well. I just made up a “Theory” that would help make the mysteries sensible to “ME.” That’s it! Just like all the people in these threads:

Alan Wake Ending Theories:
http://forum.alanwake.com/showthread.php?t=3669

The Writer Ending Theories:
http://forum.alanwake.com/showthread.php?t=5630

And most fans and followers who in some form or another posted their theories and observations in the Alan Wake Gameplay Discussion Board here:

http://forum.alanwake.com/forumdisplay.php?f=29

You see, it is not just me who puts up a “Theory” here. All of these Alan Wake fans and followers did it as well even way before me. Some of these threads about “Theories” have been here since the main Alan Wake game came out (2010!) But me, I just finished my first playthrough 3 months ago. And I just started posting in this forum I believe if I’m not mistaken about 1 month ago.

So, you see, Mirror Peak, there are Alan Wake followers that were ahead of me making up their theories as well. Way ahead of me! 2 years ahead to be precise! Now, we are not going to stop them from making their theories, are we?

Aside from the fans and followers that are here in this forum, there are still millions out there that are doing the same thing as what we are doing here. “Formulating and Making Theories” of their own! Now, we are not going to stop these Alan Wake fans and followers out there, are we?

And I believe that the Alan Wake legacy will continue to live on because there are still gamers out there that will continue to discover and re-discover the Franchise long after we are gone! These new gamers will also talk about it and maybe formulate and make their own little theories about the game and the entire Franchise. Now, we can’t definitely stop these new gamers from doing that if we are already gone! Can we?!

And do you know what matters in the end, the “Legacy” that Alan Wake has left behind to all of us! That’s what counts!

So, you see, what I did here is nothing new. It is just the same as what all the Alan Wake fans and followers did here long before I even posted my first post here! And it is the exact same thing that these new gamers will do once they will discover this Fascinating world of Alan Wake! And that is formulate and make up “Theories!”

I hope you understand it now, Mirror Peak. I formulated the “Paradox Theory” for “me” to help “me” understand the Franchise. After all, it is just a “theory!” Just like all the other “theories” in here and out there and the ones that are yet to come!

So, Mirror Peak! It’s time to move on from here! Let us explore some new and old mysteries surrounding this enchanting and haunted world of Alan Wake. Who knows, “We” may discover some new mysteries that lurk somewhere beneath the deep, dark ocean green!

I believe it is my turn to wish you first the best of luck on your long journey through the night back into the light! Happy Questing!

Cheers!

[Mirror Peak]

I'm not trying to change your mind. You seem to be pretty caught up in refusing to acknowledge there's anything wrong with your theory, and I've known you probably wont any time soon. I just wanted to point out it has issues, and I think it's been refuted to my satisfaction at this point.

[Jill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirror Peak

I'm not trying to change your mind. You seem to be pretty caught up in refusing to acknowledge there's anything wrong with your theory, and I've known you probably wont any time soon. I just wanted to point out it has issues, and I think it's been refuted to my satisfaction at this point.

Thanks, Mirror Peak! All theories have issues. But it’s alright. They are just “Theories.” The best thing for us to do is to wait until we get a sequel. If new information will be given or expressed to us, then we could evaluate our theories and re-adjust when needed.

In the meantime, the “Paradox Theory” and everything in it still stands with me. And you are correct. I will not acknowledge that there is anything wrong with it, yet. Again, it’s just a “theory.” I don’t see anything wrong with it because it’s just a “Theory.” Just like anybody else’s “Theory.” And as such, it is neither right nor wrong. But it is the theory that makes sense to me. That’s it!

I believe it’s time to move on from here, right?!

Sometimes, when I think about it, when all of this ends (if it will ever end,) we could all gather and share our thoughts over some Old god’s “moonshine” and have a blast! You know?!

Once again, I wish you all the best and good luck on your long journey through the night back into the “Light!” And Dude, don’t forget to bring your flashlight! I always carry mine to guide me through the night back into the “Light!” It’s called the “Paradox Theory!” Yup! That’s my “Flashlight” for now. Until then...

Cheers, Dude!


“Put the Lime in the Coconut, let’s drink ‘em both up!” – Harry Nilsson (Alan Wake: Episode 1)

[Pickman]

IF Alan is making some changes in his life, or fixing it, making amends.

Rose, could be a representation of a drunken one night stand, in the story (or something similar). When Alan was going crazy with booze, in New York, or where ever he was, partying and raising hell.
There is just something poetic about the trailer scene, when Alan blacks out and wakes up in Roses bed. It isn't necessarily accurate theory, but I think it works in some way, especially when we don't much about Alans misbehavior, during his dark hours.

My coconut is filled with maggots, I can't make a clear picture of things. The worm is drilling in to my brain and showing me illusions of paradise. What comes out of the worm is just shit...nothing more. Do I want to be in that paradise, or face the shit? Eventually I have to, but let me be in this illusion, for a little while.

[Jill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickman

IF Alan is making some changes in his life, or fixing it, making amends.

Rose, could be a representation of a drunken one night stand, in the story (or something similar). When Alan was going crazy with booze, in New York, or where ever he was, partying and raising hell.
There is just something poetic about the trailer scene, when Alan blacks out and wakes up in Roses bed. It isn't necessarily accurate theory, but I think it works in some way, especially when we don't much about Alans misbehavior, during his dark hours.

My coconut is filled with maggots, I can't make a clear picture of things. The worm is drilling in to my brain and showing me illusions of paradise. What comes out of the worm is just shit...nothing more. Do I want to be in that paradise, or face the shit? Eventually I have to, but let me be in this illusion, for a little while.

Hey, Pickman! You are back, Dude! I’m glad to talk to you again!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickman

Rose, could be a representation of a drunken one night stand, in the story (or something similar). When Alan was going crazy with booze, in New York, or where ever he was, partying and raising hell.

In our world, it is called “Temptation!” It is one of the forces that we ourselves struggle with here in our world. Now imagine Alan Wake in the game. Alan’s story is that he is successful. All of his 6 books are bestsellers! He is invited to “talk shows” as a testament of the success of his latest book. They held big parties for him to celebrate this success. He is hounded by the “Paparazzi!” This status is equivalent to a “Celebrity!”

Now, on the other hand, I am just an ordinary person. And even though, I am not a celebrity, I struggle with “Temptation” everyday of my Life. I struggle with “Temptation” the moment I step out of my house! It’s everywhere! “Temptation” is also there wherever you go! Now, imagine what “Temptation” would be like in Alan Wake’s status. Add to that his “Fame,” “Freedom,” and “Popularity!” How could he resist! It is a “weakness” most “Famous” figures in our society succumb into! F@ck, even “Powerful Politicians” are victims to this same menacing condition!

These are the forces that we struggle with in Life. “Cause and Effect!” If there is “Temptation,” there is “Resistance!” If you could not “resist” the forces of “temptation,” then you will fall “Trapped” by its allurement. And after that, when you realize your mistake, you end up with “Guilt!” – “Cause and Effect!” – “Guilt” and despair that you will hide inside your deepest, darkest, ocean green!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickman

There is just something poetic about the trailer scene, when Alan blacks out and wakes up in Roses bed. It isn't necessarily accurate theory, but I think it works in some way, especially when we don't much about Alans misbehavior, during his dark hours.

Oh yeah! There is a lot that we don’t know about Alan Wake! And if we follow the “Paradox Theory,” we may never know all of it anymore! You know why, Pickman?! Because Alan has erased them! And all that has remained are remnants of Alan’s “Consciousness” and “Deeper Thoughts!” which he has expressed in his manuscript. There is actually a “Term” for this style of writing. It is called “Stream of Consciousness!”

That’s right, Pickman! Look it up, Dude. It is really interesting! I myself am not a writer, but if some information like this exist, it’s too good to pass up. You see, if this “Paradox Theory” is right, when Alan Wake wrote his manuscript “Departure,” aside from harnessing Hemingway’s “Iceberg Theory” style of writing, he also adopted many different styles of writing to express his “deeper thoughts.” Some are “Metaphorical,” some are “Factual,” and maybe one of these styles is derived from the “Stream of Consciousness” style of writing.

Maybe, and I am just speaking “Theoretically,” Alan’s relationship with Rose in his “Manuscript” was written by Alan using this “Stream of Consciousness” style of writing! Here, Pickman Dude! Take a look at it below. These excerpts are taken from 3 encyclopedias of different publishers and countries!



The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia® Copyright © 2007, Columbia University Press.

Stream of Consciousness, in literature, technique that records the multifarious thoughts and feelings of a character without regard to logical argument or narrative sequence. The writer attempts by the stream of consciousness to reflect all the forces, external and internal, influencing the psychology of a character at a single moment. The technique was first employed by Édouard Dujardin (1861–1949) in his novel Les Lauriers sont coupés (1888) and was subsequently used by such notable writers as James Joyce, Virginia Woolf, and William Faulkner. The phrase "stream of consciousness" to indicate the flow of inner experience was first used by William James in Principles of Psychology (1890).



Britannica Concise Encyclopedia. Copyright © 1994-2008 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.

Stream of Consciousness – Narrative technique intended to render the flow of myriad impressions—visual, auditory, tactile, associative, and subliminal—that impinge on an individual consciousness. To represent the mind at work, a writer may incorporate snatches of thought and grammatical constructions that do not seem coherent because they are based on the free association of ideas and images. The term was first used by William James in The Principles of Psychology (1890). In the 20th century, writers attempting to capture the total flow of their characters' consciousness commonly used the techniques of interior monologue, which represents a sequence of thought and feeling. Novels in which stream of consciousness plays an important role include James Joyce's Ulysses (1922), William Faulkner's The Sound and the Fury (1929), and Virginia Woolf's The Waves (1931).



The Great Soviet Encyclopedia, 3rd Edition (1970-1979). © 2010 The Gale Group, Inc.

The term “Stream of Consciousness” was originated by the American idealist philospher W. James, who viewed consciousness as a stream or river in which thoughts, sensations, and sudden associations were constantly colliding and were won-drously and “illogically” interwoven (Principles of Psychology, 1890). The “stream of consciousness” is the ultimate or extreme form of the interior monologue, in which it is often difficult to establish objective links with the real environment.

In classic stream-of-consciousness works (novels by M. Proust, V. Woolf, and J. Joyce) attention is drawn with the utmost acuteness to the subjective, to the secret in the human psyche. The traditional narrative structure is violated, and the displacement of temporal levels becomes a formal experiment. The central work in stream-of-consciousness literature is Joyce’s Ulysses (1922), which simultaneously revealed the peak and the exhaustion of the potential of the stream-of-consciousness method. In Ulysses, the study of man’s inner life is combined with an erosion of the borders of the individual character, and psychological analysis often becomes a goal in itself. As a result of Joyce’s substantial influence on European and American literature, most major writers were attracted to the method of stream of consciousness, primarily in their early works. Subsequently, they turned to the method for realistic, cognitive purposes, using it as a device for the depiction of certain mental states. (E. Hemingway, W. Faulkner, A. Huxley, G. Greene, G. Grass, and M. Duras are among the most outstanding representatives of this group of writers.)


So, Pickman! What do you think, my friend?!

Dude, when you said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickman

There is just something poetic about the trailer scene, when Alan blacks out and wakes up in Roses bed.

And after reading these excerpts above about “Stream of Consciousness,” does your statement do you justice?! Is it “Poetic” enough?!

Although we are just making up “theories” here, these explanations and definitions did give justice to your statement! I believe it did, give you justice! And is it “Poetic” enough?! Dude, I believe it is! With all these “Factual” explanations, it looks promising enough! Don’t you think, Dude!

Pickman Dude! I believe you are correct in your analysis when you said that statement above! And what you said is justified by the “Stream of Consciousness” information!

Again, these are just “theories” Pickman. Just “Theories!” But it’s sure is one heck of a “Theory,” right Dude?!

Aside from the “Trailer Scene” between Alan and Rose, this “Stream of Consciousness” style of writing could also be applied to the “Voices” that Alan Wake hears while walking towards the Cabin in the Dark Place at the bottom of the Lake close to the end of the main game.

And did you notice the highlighted writer’s name? That is James Joyce! Another writer that Agent Nightingale used to call Alan Wake! This happened at the Andersons’ Farm when Agent Nightingale found Alan drunk with “moonshine!” Coincidence?!

It even mentions Hemingway’s name! The one from “The Great Soviet Encyclopedia!” Another Coincidence?!

I don’t know Pickman! There are just too many coincidences! I guess I’m going to stick to the “Paradox Theory” for a while, Man! The “Paradox Theory” still stands for me!

I hope after reading this Dude, the maggots in your “Coconut” would start to clear up! Just remember my friend, when everything goes “nuts,” I have two things to say to you:

“It takes Crazy to know Crazy!” – Odin Anderson, Old gods of Asgard

“That’s the Sanest thing I’ve heard in a while!” – Alan Wake


Cheers, Dude!

[Pickman]

I don't mind the maggots, or the occasional night crawler.

Stream of consciousness sound pretty darn cool!! It suits very well in the world of Alan Wake. There is a lot of deep hidden subconscious thoughts.
Sam Lake tells us about the deep waters all the time, but there is also the dark forest.
In dreams the dark forest means the subconscious regions you don't want to explore, or find hard to get in to.

In the begin of the game, after the crash, Alan is in the dark forest. When suddenly a light shines between the trees. Light is hope, or guidance right?! Alan finds the manuscript and follows the manuscript, that appeared in the light! And walks through that forest and gets into those difficult regions, explores that subconsciousness with the manuscript that he wrote in the deep waters of Cauldron Lake.

If you practice the stream of consciousness writing style, you are bound to write some deep thoughts when you are in "the zone", I think?! I've never reach that state in writing.
But sometimes when I've played my "axe" for several hours, I get into "the zone" and I pour my feelings into that piece of wood. So I guess the stream of consciousness works in many ways and playing music isn't as strong as writing. It stirs some emotional elements, but it disappears in the universe, unlike writing.

You but the worm in the coconut and crawl into the night.

[Jill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickman

Stream of consciousness sound pretty darn cool!! It suits very well in the world of Alan Wake. There is a lot of deep hidden subconscious thoughts.
Sam Lake tells us about the deep waters all the time, but there is also the dark forest.
In dreams the dark forest means the subconscious regions you don't want to explore, or find hard to get in to.

In the begin of the game, after the crash, Alan is in the dark forest. When suddenly a light shines between the trees. Light is hope, or guidance right?! Alan finds the manuscript and follows the manuscript, that appeared in the light! And walks through that forest and gets into those difficult regions, explores that subconsciousness with the manuscript that he wrote in the deep waters of Cauldron Lake.

Man! You’ve got some pretty deep sh*t going on in that “Coconut” of yours! But I agree with you, Dude! Your analogy is deep but with substance! The “Psyche” is still somewhat of an unexplored science! It is not a perfect science yet. All we have are “scientific theories” in psychology and the like, that kind of guides the practice. From the likes of Plato in the earliest times, to Sigmund Freud, to the modern theorist such as John B. Watson and B.F. Skinner, all have contributed their school of thought to the practice of “Psychology.” But no single theory is ever the same as all the rest.

We may have all the scientific theories about “Psychology” and the human “Psyche” in our hands, but deep within we don’t really know what the f@ck is going on inside somebody’s mind and “Psyche!” Just like what Barry said in “The Writer” DLC. – “Crazy people don’t know they’re ‘Crazy.’ That’s why they are “Crazy!” – This statement made by Barry is absolutely true. If “crazy” people don’t know that, then how are we “normal” people suppose to know what is going on inside a “crazy” person’s “Psyche?!” Or even another “normal” person’s “Psyche” for that matter?! We can’t! Unless we ourselves become “crazy” as well! Even then, we still can’t explain our own “Crazy Psyche” because if we become “crazy” we still don’t know that we ourselves are also “crazy!” Catch my drift on this, Dude!

The only way for us to find out about another person’s “Psyche” is to analyze how they “express” themselves with the world!

All we “normal” humans could do then is provide our own “Scientific Theories!” And that is what all these experts in “Psychology” did! They provided us with a “Theoretical” foundation based on their own observations. And so, that is what we have even up to this very day!

So, you see, Pickman. What you did here is create your own analogy based on existing and discovered information. An analogy that is both deep and substantial enough to call it a “Theory!” A very good “theory!”

Now, speaking of “scientific theories” in psychology, I have discovered an excerpt about a Professor’s impression of the work done by Sigmund Freud. Now, I will not mention the Professor’s name here, but I will post his own interpretation of what he believes is the work of the Psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud, one of the fathers of the field. Here it is:

The Id

The first developing part of the psyche, in Freud's theory, was the id, which means "it." Freud got the idea of a psychological id from a psychologist named Georg Groddeck who lived in Vienna at the same time as Freud. To Groddeck, the id was a dark, unknown part of the mind that controls us but remains outside our awareness. Groddeck wrote a book called The Book of IT in which he argued that we are "lived" by this unseen presence. In other words, "it" is really in control!

Freud described the id as "chaos, a cauldron full of seething excitation" dominated by impulses of sex and aggression. Freud proposed that the id was the source of the libido, a source of energy for the entire psyche. This energy was expressed in drives or urges like sex and aggression. (Freud used the German word trieb, which means a motivating tendency, sometimes translated as "wish.")



What do you think, Pickman?!

Now, Dude! These impressions are not my own words. These are the words and interpretations of a Doctor who teaches “Psychology.” Isn’t that interesting?!

The Id is just one of the three (3) theoretical constitutions of the human “Psyche” according to Sigmund Freud. If you want to know more, you could look it up! Maybe we could talk about it more next time!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickman

If you practice the stream of consciousness writing style, you are bound to write some deep thoughts when you are in "the zone", I think?! I've never reach that state in writing.
But sometimes when I've played my "axe" for several hours, I get into "the zone" and I pour my feelings into that piece of wood. So I guess the stream of consciousness works in many ways and playing music isn't as strong as writing. It stirs some emotional elements, but it disappears in the universe, unlike writing.

That is absolutely true, Dude! Remember, Pickman. “Stream of Consciousness,” “Metaphors,” these are just writing styles that you could learn overtime. True art is coming from within you. You have to have art inside your heart to create art! In short, artistic creations must come from real artists. And I believe, based on what you are saying, you have it in you!

I myself am an artist, too. But I just express it as a hobby! I don’t write though, but maybe I should try one day. I paint/draw and I do metal sculptures. I play music as well, but I haven’t tried writing one yet. And I consider these to be just a hobby for now.

But you are correct, Dude. Nothing expresses more about a human’s “Psyche” than writing a book! Even the “Dark Presence” prefers artists who could do that! And you are right about the “Stream of Consciousness.” Writing a book is the best way to express this style of writing! Especially when you add to it a little bit of the mystical power of the “Lake.” The possibilities are endless!

Now, Pickman Dude! Don’t forget to post back when you discover something. Cool?! Alright!

And to end this post, I would like to quote Barbara Jagger (Episode 4):

“Cauldron ‘Lake’ is a special place! Here, you have the power to change things!”

Cheers, Dude!


(Please pardon my Wall of Text.)

[Jill]

Hello Everyone! It’s me again. I’m back from my recent journey with
Alan Wake. I did not dive in to check on Alan’s iceberg! This time I went to a small town in Arizona called “Night Springs!” Yes, I just finished playing the Alan Wake: American Nightmare game. And I must tell you it was one heck of a journey again! Oh Man, it felt like Déjà vu!

Anyway, I am going to stop here and re-direct you to a Link for my AWAN game “theory.” This AWAN “Theoretical Interpretation” is directly related to the “Paradox Theory” I was explaining above. It means that even though AWAN is not a direct sequel to the main Alan Wake game, AWAN is directly connected to it in its narrative content!

I am warning you though; there are heavy spoilers on it about the AWAN game. If you haven’t played AWAN yet and you don’t want to get spoiled, please don’t click this Link! By the way, this Link also belongs to this Forum, so it’s safe! Here it is:

http://forum.alanwake.com/showthread.php?t=8498

If you want to join in with your comments or suggestions, please feel free to post it here for Alan Wake related theories or on the other thread for AWAN related theories. After all, this is what this forum is all about. It’s free for all! And don’t forget, if you want to join in on the AWAN thread, you have to play the game first! Now, what are you waiting for? Go and get it so you could play it! Have fun!

Cheers!

[johnphenomenon]

Hey, Jill. I thought I'd repay you for posting on my thread by posting on yours.

Unfortunately, I can't say that I can honestly "buy" almost anything about your theory. I didn't really read every single post, cause I'm kinda lazy, but I think I got the gist of it.

I don't really like the idea of Alan writing the events of the entire "Alan Wake" game. Not because of the whole paradox thing, just because I don't see it that way. Your theory is pretty solid, and I suppose it's a possibility, but it just feels wrong to me. Here's why:

You could say that Alan wrote the entire events of the game and in turn, wrote all the characters and all of the other things you said. But one thing you don't seem to realize is that Alan wasn't even conscious when he wrote Departure. He was completely out of it, being almost entirely controlled by the Dark Presence. Not only that, but he had an "editor" remember? Jagger practically wrote the entire story herself, and only used Alan as a monkey. Why else would all these terrible things happen to Alan, things that would make his situation worse and make the Dark Presence stronger? I don't believe Alan was at all conscious of what he was writing, so I don't think he was aware enough to rewrite he past, or write other characters into existence, or anything of the sort. So, that's pretty much my main problem with your theory.

But, I do really like that whole symbolism thing you guys were talking about. I think it fits well with the themes of the story, but I don't necessarily think that any of it is actually true. Maybe its because symbolism is sort of a pet peeve of mine when it comes to stories (they don't impress me). But I do like how well you thought it out.

Anyway, sorry for this, didn't really mean to shoot you down or anything, just giving my two cents. Hm, guess I didn't really do a good job of paying you back, did I? Hahaha,

[Pickman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnphenomenon

But, I do really like that whole symbolism thing you guys were talking about. I think it fits well with the themes of the story, but I don't necessarily think that any of it is actually true.

I don't know(think) if it's true either, but it was just an interesting idea, that came to mind.
With stories like Alan Wake, you could come up with all kinds of interpretations, about the symbolism, or the story.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnphenomenon

But one thing you don't seem to realize is that Alan wasn't even conscious when he wrote Departure.

But he was conscious enough to see that he was writing a horror story and started to write a new story, or at least a better ending. If I remember correctly.
How much of that Barbara story remained in Alan story? Nobody has answered me that. Maybe all, with a few tweaks.

And if you want to get into, my world. Alan is fixing him self and if the characters in the story represents aspects of Alan and some things are just meant to happen, in order for a change to happen. Some things need to go away and some need to re surface. (Not talking, about Alice, but the other guy who emerges. The "new" Alan and maybe some old folks.)

Stay crunchy man, staay crunchy."shakes his fist"

[johnphenomenon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickman

But he was conscious enough to see that he was writing a horror story and started to write a new story, or at least a better ending. If I remember correctly.
How much of that Barbara story remained in Alan story? Nobody has answered me that. Maybe all, with a few tweaks.

And if you want to get into, my world. Alan is fixing him self and if the characters in the story represents aspects of Alan and some things are just meant to happen, in order for a change to happen. Some things need to go away and some need to re surface. (Not talking, about Alice, but the other guy who emerges. The "new" Alan and maybe some old folks.)

Stay crunchy man, staay crunchy."shakes his fist"

I appreciate what you guys are saying but I don't think it's that complicated. Sure, he was conscious enough to write himself free, as well as to know its a horror story, but its the way he described that makes me think that Alan didn't know what he was writing at the time. He says something like, "Some part of me was aware enough to free myself from the Dark Presence." The way he's talking, its as if he's only speculating about something he did. Of course he has no memory of it, but one thing that comes to mind is that Alan looks like a zombie whenever he is shown writing the manuscript. In the TV scenes that show him writing, he's rambling and crawling around the room, making crazy faces. He's obviously out of it. That's what makes me think that all of this talk about Alan specifically writing Departure in a specific way isn't possible.

Oh, and thanks for the tip, I will stay crunchy.

[Jill]

Hey JohnPhenomenon, you made it around. Good for you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnphenomenon

Unfortunately, I can't say that I can honestly "buy" almost anything about your theory. I didn't really read every single post, cause I'm kinda lazy, but I think I got the gist of it.

First of all, You are free Dude. This is a free world! You can believe anything you want to believe. Nobody is forcing You here to accept anything. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and interpretation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnphenomenon

Jagger practically wrote the entire story herself, and only used Alan as a monkey.

Now, this is something that I don’t believe is possible. If Jagger did this by herself and only used Alan as a monkey, then why use Alan Wake! If Jagger is this “all powerful,” “all knowing,” “all seeing” entity that could do this by herself, then why wait almost 40 years for Alan Wake to arrive in Bright Falls! Why wait, and why choose Alan if Jagger could just simply choose any “Homeless Guy” in the streets and use it as a monkey! If Jagger could write the entire story, she would not need Alan because she already knows the story, and because of that Jagger could choose any “Hobo” in the streets and use it as a monkey! But no, no, no……….it has to be Alan Wake! And do you know why it has to be Alan Wake? – Because this is Alan Wake’s Story! – Alan Wake wrote it! All of it! And this is Alan Wake’s story! Not Barbara Jagger’s story, but Alan Wake’s story!

Even Alan Wake admits it that this is his own doing! Do you remember the scene in the first game when Alan and Barry got wasted in the Anderson Farm by drinking the Anderson’s moonshine? While Alan was sleeping in the couch, he had a dream. Everything that happened in the cabin in the first week was revealed to Alan in his dream. When the dream ended, Agent Nightingale shows up and Alan “wakes” up. Do you know what the words that Alan Wake uttered right at that moment?! – “I wrote it. It’s my fault” – F@ck! Alan Wake admitted it! Alan said - “I wrote it. It’s my fault!” – Alan did not say “It’s Barbara Jagger’s fault” or “It’s the Dark Presence’s fault” or “Jagger wrote it, she used me as a monkey. It’s her fault” Alan never said anything like this! What Alan Wake said after the revelation was – “I wrote it. It’s my fault” – Alan Wake admitted it!

And what you are trying to say here is that “Jagger practically wrote the entire story herself, and only used Alan as a monkey.” I’m sorry Dude, but “No Juice” for me on this one! I don’t buy it either. I’m sorry but I ain’t buying it at all! No Juice, Dude! No Juice!

Alan Wake wrote it! This is Alan Wake’s story! And if ever there was a monkey in town, it was the Dark Presence!

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnphenomenon

I don't believe Alan was at all conscious of what he was writing, so I don't think he was aware enough to rewrite he past, or write other characters into existence, or anything of the sort. So, that's pretty much my main problem with your theory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnphenomenon

Of course he has no memory of it, but one thing that comes to mind is that Alan looks like a zombie whenever he is shown writing the manuscript. In the TV scenes that show him writing, he's rambling and crawling around the room, making crazy faces. He's obviously out of it. That's what makes me think that all of this talk about Alan specifically writing Departure in a specific way isn't possible.

“Theoretically” speaking, in the “Paradox Theory,” all of this about Alan losing his memory, looking unaware, crawling around the room and acting crazy, these are all written in the “Departure” manuscript! That’s right, in the “Paradox Theory,” everything that we see, hear and experience is already written in the “Departure” manuscript from the very beginning of the first game, including Alan’s dream in the very beginning! And this behavior of Alan while he was writing the manuscript looking unaware, crawling around acting crazy is also written in the “Departure” manuscript! Everything that we see, hear, and experience in the game has been written by Alan Wake in his “Departure” manuscript!

In the “Paradox Theory,” I could say that Alan Wake has already written in his “Departure” manuscript the story about him writing his “Departure” manuscript the story about him writing his “Departure” manuscript the story about him writing his “Departure” manuscript the story about him writing his “Departure” manuscript the story about him writing his “Departure” manuscript the story about him writing his “Departure” manuscript………….Now, doesn’t this pattern looks familiar? It kind of looks like a “Paradox!” I’m sure I’ve seen something like this before. Why of course, there is a manuscript page like this in “Departure!” Here, check it out:


Wake Reads a Page

I lifted the page in front of my eyes and read it. In it, I lifted the page in front of my eyes and read it. In it, I lifted the page in front of my eyes and read it. In it, I lifted the page in front of my eyes and read it. In it, I lifted the page in front of my eyes and read it. In it, I lifted the page in front of my eyes and read it.



The page above is from Episode 3 and could only be found in “Nightmare Mode.” Ha! No wonder Alan looked confused and unaware, crawling around and acting crazy. He is doing this because it is already written in the “Departure” manuscript! And who wrote it – Alan Wake himself!

“Theoretically” speaking, in the “Paradox Theory,” even Alan being touched by the Dark Presence was also written! That’s right! Alan Wake wrote a story in his “Departure” manuscript about him being touched by the Dark Presence. Just like the story about the “Clicker” in the “well lit room!” Alan Wake wrote a story in his “Departure” manuscript about Zane writing the “Clicker” story for Alan. Ha! Everything that we see, hear and experience in the first game is already written in the “Departure” manuscript! The “Departure” manuscript is “The Game!” And who wrote the manuscript again – Alan Wake himself!

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnphenomenon

But, I do really like that whole symbolism thing you guys were talking about. I think it fits well with the themes of the story, but I don't necessarily think that any of it is actually true. Maybe its because symbolism is sort of a pet peeve of mine when it comes to stories (they don't impress me). But I do like how well you thought it out.

Dude, it doesn’t matter if the symbolisms are true or not. What matters to me is that Pickman saw it! Pickman could see it inside a complex story! Now that to me is already admirable! Pickman opened it up first, and if he is spot on with this one, it’s Pickman that gets all the credit! He is the genius behind it, not me!

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnphenomenon

Anyway, sorry for this, didn't really mean to shoot you down or anything, just giving my two cents. Hm, guess I didn't really do a good job of paying you back, did I? Hahaha,

Nobody needs to pay anybody anything here. This is a public forum. It’s free for all! Everybody is free to express their opinions in a public forum. And everybody here is free to believe whatever they want to believe! It’s a free world, Dude! You are free to believe whatever you want to believe. And just as equally, I am also free to believe in whatever I want to believe! And for me, the “Paradox Theory” still stands!

And you didn’t really shoot me, Dude. Your bullet has got “No Juice” to hit me in the first place! I’m sorry Dude, but I don’t buy your contradictions either! I just ain’t buying this Juice at all!

The “Paradox Theory” still Lives! For now…Hahaha!!!

I don’t need to “stay crunchy.” All I need to be is to “stay sane!” That’s right, while everybody goes in-Zane!...Hahaha!

The “PARADOX THEORY” still LIVES!!!


Cheers!

[johnphenomenon]

I'm not saying that Jagger could have used anyone as her "monkey." We know that the Dark Presence only influences artists, so apparently, Alan was the first artist (writer) to visit Cauldron Lake since Zane (I'm not sure how Jake from the Bright Falls prequel fits in there though). When Jagger saw Alan coming, she knew she could use him as her monkey. I suppose in a way, some part of Alan still had something to do with the overall output (Departure) which is why he blames himself for everything. But I don't think Alan consciously made the decision to write Departure in a specific way, which is why I can't swallow this idea that everything in the Alan Wake game is Alan's own doing (his writing).

By the way, I'm not sure about this whole paradox idea. I'm no physics expert. but theoretical physics and quantum mechanics are among my interests. Anyway, I'm pretty sure a paradox is against the laws of physics. Meaning, if a paradox were to occur, the very fabric of the space/time continuum would unravel, thus ceasing everything to exist. I'm not sure about this, but this is how I understand paradoxes. It's what Doc Brown and Marty (Back to the Future) were avoiding. This wasn't my only reference by the way, hahaha. So, if there was a paradox in Alan Wake's universe, the entire universe would simply collapse on itself. Unless, paradoxes are a more fluid anomaly, like a causality loop or something. Interestingly enough, what you guys talked about earlier in this thread (or was it a different thread?) about Zane writing Alan writing Zane writing Alan is a causality loop. So maybe we can say that the Dark Place can manipulate the very laws of the physical world, thus making a paradox possible.

Again, I'm not certain on any of this, it's just how I understand it. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on all of this.

[Jill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnphenomenon

I'm not saying that Jagger could have used anyone as her "monkey."

I said it Dude. Here, I’ll post it again for you because it appears like you didn’t get it the first time.

If Jagger did this by herself and only used Alan as a monkey, then why use Alan Wake! If Jagger is this “all powerful,” “all knowing,” “all seeing” entity that could do this by herself, then why wait almost 40 years for Alan Wake to arrive in Bright Falls! Why wait, and why choose Alan if Jagger could just simply choose any “Homeless Guy” in the streets and use it as a monkey! If Jagger could write the entire story, she would not need Alan because she already knows the story, and because of that Jagger could choose any “Hobo” in the streets and use it as a monkey! But no, no, no……….it has to be Alan Wake! And do you know why it has to be Alan Wake? – Because this is Alan Wake’s Story! – Alan Wake wrote it! All of it! And this is Alan Wake’s story! Not Barbara Jagger’s story, but Alan Wake’s story!

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnphenomenon

We know that the Dark Presence only influences artists, so apparently, Alan was the first artist (writer) to visit Cauldron Lake since Zane

Yeah, we know. Do you know why only “artists?” Because it is also written! That’s right, Dude. This story about the Dark Presence choosing only “artist” is also written in the “Departure” manuscript that Alan Wake wrote. And Alan being the first artist to visit Bright Falls, that story is written, too. That’s right, Dude. Alan Wake wrote it! All of it! Everything that we see, hear, and experience in the game, Alan Wake wrote it in his “Departure” manuscript! This is Alan Wake’s story!

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnphenomenon

When Jagger saw Alan coming, she knew she could use him as her monkey.

Again, If Jagger is this “all powerful,” “all knowing,” “all seeing” entity that could do this by herself, then why wait almost 40 years for Alan Wake to arrive in Bright Falls! Why wait, and why choose Alan if Jagger could just simply choose any “Homeless Guy” in the streets and use it as a monkey! If Jagger could write the entire story, she would not need Alan because she already knows the story, and because of that Jagger could choose any “Hobo” in the streets and use it as a monkey! But no, no, no……….it has to be Alan Wake! And do you know why it has to be Alan Wake? – Because this is Alan Wake’s Story! – Alan Wake wrote it! All of it! And this is Alan Wake’s story! Not Barbara Jagger’s story, but Alan Wake’s story!

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnphenomenon

I suppose in a way, some part of Alan still had something to do with the overall output (Departure)

Ha! Now you are retracting what you’ve said about “Jagger practically writing the entire story herself.” I’m sorry Dude, but still “No Juice!” I still don’t buy it! Nope, I ain’t buying it at all! Alan Wake did it! He said it, he admitted it, and he blamed himself for it! He did not blame anybody else. Alan only blamed himself. Because Alan Wake wrote it! All of it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnphenomenon

But I don't think Alan consciously made the decision to write Departure in a specific way

And again…? Dude, with you I have to say it 2 or more times. You keep going back and forth. Anyway, here it goes again:

“Theoretically” speaking, in the “Paradox Theory,” all of this about Alan losing his memory, looking unaware, crawling around the room and acting crazy, these are all written in the “Departure” manuscript! That’s right, in the “Paradox Theory,” everything that we see, hear and experience is already written in the “Departure” manuscript from the very beginning of the first game, including Alan’s dream in the very beginning! And this behavior of Alan while he was writing the manuscript looking unaware, crawling around acting crazy is also written in the “Departure” manuscript! Everything that we see, hear, and experience in the game has been written by Alan Wake in his “Departure” manuscript!

In the “Paradox Theory,” I could say that Alan Wake has already written in his “Departure” manuscript the story about him writing his “Departure” manuscript the story about him writing his “Departure” manuscript the story about him writing his “Departure” manuscript the story about him writing his “Departure” manuscript the story about him writing his “Departure” manuscript the story about him writing his “Departure” manuscript………….Now, doesn’t this pattern looks familiar? It kind of looks like a “Paradox!” I’m sure I’ve seen something like this before. Why of course, there is a manuscript page like this in “Departure!” Here, check it out:


Wake Reads a Page

I lifted the page in front of my eyes and read it. In it, I lifted the page in front of my eyes and read it. In it, I lifted the page in front of my eyes and read it. In it, I lifted the page in front of my eyes and read it. In it, I lifted the page in front of my eyes and read it. In it, I lifted the page in front of my eyes and read it.



The page above is from Episode 3 and could only be found in “Nightmare Mode.” Ha! No wonder Alan looked confused and unaware, crawling around and acting crazy. He is doing this because it is already written in the “Departure” manuscript! And who wrote it – Alan Wake himself!

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnphenomenon

By the way, I'm not sure about this whole paradox idea. I'm no physics expert. but theoretical physics and quantum mechanics are among my interests. Anyway, I'm pretty sure a paradox is against the laws of physics. Meaning, if a paradox were to occur, the very fabric of the space/time continuum would unravel, thus ceasing everything to exist. I'm not sure about this, but this is how I understand paradoxes. It's what Doc Brown and Marty (Back to the Future) were avoiding. This wasn't my only reference by the way, hahaha. So, if there was a paradox in Alan Wake's universe, the entire universe would simply collapse on itself.

In a normal world, we all know that a “Paradox” is just impossible. You said it yourself. But in Alan Wake’s world, there are mystical powers involved (It’s the “Lake!”) You add that to the mix and Shazam! – Quantum Immortality!

“Paradox Theory” Baby!!!

If a “Paradox” exists in Alan Wake’s world, it exists because Alan’s “Departure” manuscript was made real by the power of the “Lake!” That’s right, Dude! Alan Wake wrote it! All of it! And the power of the “Lake” made it real! – The “Lake” is Powerful, it is Silent but Deadly!

And the “Paradox Theory” still Lives!

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnphenomenon

Again, I'm not certain on any of this, it's just how I understand it. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on all of this.

I beg to disagree what you agree to disagree because you know what Dude? – It ain’t got “No Juice!” – Oh yeah! I ain’t buying it because it ain’t got “No Juice” at all!

The “PARADOX THEORY” still “LIVES!”

[Mirror Peak]

That actually has a lot of juice. The Paradox Theory is dead and buried Jill, sorry. Maybe it's time to move on?

[johnphenomenon]

I don't think that Jagger (or The Dark Presence) is "all-powerful" and "all-knowing." If it/she was, then the entire Alan Wake universe would have been taken over by the darkness from the get go. No, the Dark Presence is virtually powerless (being trapped in its "prison") without a conduit, a vessel. Artists are their vessels. I don't get why you keep on mentioning hobos or anything like that. The Dark Presence can only influence artists. And I know what you're going to say, "That's because Alan wrote it so!". Don't mean to mock you, but I just expect you'd say that. haha. Anyway, I don't really understand why you keep on mentioning the thing about hobos. I'm not saying that the Dark Presence is omniscient or that it can influence anyone. I don't believe it is/can. Where did you get that from?

I get what you're saying. I understand your theory, you don't have to keep reposting things haha. I'm just saying that I find holes in it, and I can't subscribe to it. It doesn't make any sense to me that the entire Alan Wake game is written by Alan Wake, even the events before he was captured by the Dark Presence and before he wrote Departure. I just took those pages (the ones that detail the events before his capture) as him writing out his memories. As for the things outside of Alan's knowledge (Hartman, Mott etc), I believe that's one of the things influenced by Jagger. I just can't get that idea out of my head. In the TV videos, Alan says that Jagger is his editor, "whispering" to him, telling him to what to write. How does that fit into your theory? I'm not sure, but I think there are some pages that detail this. If that were true, that would indeed be a paradox. Even it were, it still would not mean that Alan decidedly wrote that page as a paradox. It could have easily have been the will of the Dark Presence.

And the thing I said about some part of Alan being conscious, I was only suggesting that it could be a possibility. I wasn't retracting my statements. I still don't believe it, I'm just saying that I suppose it could be possible. Your theory is entirely plausible actually. I just don't personally like it. Mostly because of the whole Dark Presence influence thing I keep mentioning.

Am I missing something? Sorry, you don't seem to understand what I'm saying, hahaha. Or maybe I don't understand you. If you want me to clarify something, just let me know.

[Jill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirror Peak

The Paradox Theory is dead and buried Jill, sorry. Maybe it's time to move on?

Wow! I mean WOW!

How long have you been here on this forum Mirror Peak? As far as I know, you’ve probably been here since the first Alan Wake game came out; let’s say maybe almost 2 years now. I on the other hand, I just joined in February of this year (2012.) I started my first post on the same month. That’s just 2 or 3 months ago! Now, since I’ve joined here in this forum I’ve been reading a lot of theories from this thread:


Alan Wake Ending Theories Thread:
http://forum.alanwake.com/showthread.php?t=3669


The Writer Ending Theories Thread:
http://forum.alanwake.com/showthread.php?t=5630


And theories from the entire Alan Wake Gameplay Discussion Board here:

http://forum.alanwake.com/forumdisplay.php?f=29


While reading these theories, I actually noticed and read a lot of your post in most of these threads as well. When I read your post, sometimes I read it twice in a row because most of them make sense. There are deep meanings and true connections to your post with regards to the mysteries of the game and the franchise.

What I also noticed is that if you take a look at the threads that I’ve mentioned above. These theories are dated since 2010 and have been written right after the first Alan Wake game came out. There are hundreds of these different theories written since 2010 when the first game came out. Some theories are solid, some are weird, and some are opposing other theories.

And you know what? After all these years and after all these different solid, weird and opposing theories that were written on these threads – You have “Never” tried to kill a single theory! NEVER! – Let alone declare it “dead and buried.” NEVER! After your 2 years of postings here on these threads Mirror Peak, you have never, ever declared a single theory “dead and buried.” But I posted my “Theory” just 2 months ago and you were all over it like a bee on honey. And then you declare it “dead and buried?” – Wow!!! There must be something “BIG” going on with this “Theory” for you to just kill it in 2 months as compared to all the other theories out there that’s been here for 2 years since the first game came out!

The “Paradox Theory!” A single “Theory” that connects “The Flow” of the Entire Alan Wake Franchise, it explains a lot of the mysteries and still connects all of these explained mysteries into a single explainable and understandable “Theory.” And was created and posted just 2 months ago. And now you want to kill it! After 2 years of your reading and posting on these other solid, weird, opposing theories found on this forum, you’ve never killed or declared dead any single one of these theories Mirror Peak! But the “Paradox Theory” on the other hand, the single “Theory” that connects “The Flow” and explains a lot of the mysteries that still connects to this single “Theory,” and only 2 month old, you’ve declared “dead and buried.”

F@ck! This “Paradox Theory” is HOT!!!

Man, this “Theory” is Burning Hot! Like in Arizona on a Hot summer day! Where 3 Hot Chicks roam the sand by day! And Splitters and Specters “springs-up” by “night!” Ha! I Like it!.........no, no, no, no, no………I Love it! F@ck, this “Paradox Theory” is HOT! This is still the “Theory” for me!

And you know what Mirror Peak; there is more to the “Paradox Theory” than you know. Oh yeah! There’s more to it! Maybe you will find out about it sooner or later. Or maybe not!

Ha! The “PARADOX THEORY” is HOT and still “LIVES!!!” – It’s Hotter than ever! Oh yeah! Burning HOT!!!

[Mirror Peak]

Denial is the first stage of grieving. People have ideas that dont pan out all the time dude, it's not that bad and it's no big deal. You just have to pick up and keep going. You'll have other ideas don't worry, they'll be better next time even.