Go Back   Remedy Community Forums > Games > Alan Wake > Alan Wake Gameplay Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-10-2012, 10:17 PM   #1321
Hunter6
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

There's just something to be found about all of this...

"Because you won, I am speaking in a Dramatic Voice"
Hunter6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2012, 03:12 AM   #1322
Jill
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Probably a lot could be found about all of this. Maybe it could be a matter of just looking at the right places. Or maybe not…by the way, are we still talking about Agent Nightingale? Yeah, what’s up with that guy? Are we talking about him being chosen as the new “face” of Darkness? Is this true? Agent Nightingale is really the new “face” of Darkness? I thought his story is still part of the cliffhanger ending? He could just be touched by the Dark Presence, and then released. Just like Rose. But now he is the “face” of Darkness?! Wow, is this fact or speculation?
Jill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2012, 12:46 AM   #1323
Typhren
Alane Wake Ending(some spoilers)

Alright, so when i beat alan wake my impression was that, alan had created mr scrach in his story "the return" wich is the plot of american nightmare, as a representation of his darker, sucidal and all around insane side that you frequently see in the Tv screens. the point of writing the return was to overcome his insane side via beating mr scratch in the story and having it come true, allowing him then to focus on freeing himself(and or zane) from the darkplace with out worrying about getting lost in his own insanity.
The only flaw i see in my interpritation is that apon further review i noticed that Zane had talked about mr scratch as if he knew him. so if mr scratch was a fictional character representing alans insanity how could zane know him

the only thing i could possabily say to explain this is rather far fetched
in that during the very end it seemed to show alan wake rewind time via his story and set things off to a better ending, in the paradox of time any changes of the past have alredy happened, so its possabile that way that Zane would know of mr scratch. So i dont think this is likly the case, What do you all think?

Lastly the whole "its not a lake its ocean", A he sounded possed and dark when he said that, and B zane also refrences the lake actualy being a ocean in the very begining of the game. What this all means i dont know, thoughts?
Typhren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2012, 01:00 PM   #1324
Jill
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Hello Dudes and Dudettes! I’m writing this post in relation to the topic about Nightingale being discussed previously in several postings above. I have something in mind that puzzles me. Just a little bit, a wee bit of information. I was just wondering how does one become the “Face” of Darkness. In the story of the Alan Wake game, there is a folktale about a scratching hag terrorizing the town of Bright Falls for some 30 or 40 years now. Some people who live in Bright Falls believe this as a myth, and some people believe she is real. Some people are even presumed to write songs about her – “Scratching hag, you can rake your claws and gnash your crooked teeth” – There is a lot of mythology behind the “Face” of Darkness. I mean, Barbara Jagger is probably inspired from Baba Yaga, a haggish, witchlike character from Slavic Folklore. In this folktale, Baba Yaga lives in a hut or log cabin with chicken legs, and Jagger has Bird Leg Cabin.

A lot of similarities there I guess; and Jagger’s character as we know now comes from this deep mythology. But it doesn’t answer yet how does one become the “Face” of Darkness. In the Alan Wake game, Jagger was the “Face” of Darkness. How did she become one? Was Jagger chosen as the “Face” of Darkness or was she written? As I understood in the Alan Wake game, Jagger died first, and then Zane wrote Jagger back to Life but she comes out something different with a heart full of Darkness. That’s where Jagger became the “Face” of Darkness. Now, my questions are, what if Zane did not write Jagger back to Life, would there be a “Face” of Darkness? If there is, would this “Face” still be Jagger? Would there be still a “Scratching Hag” that would terrorize Bright Falls? Does the Dark Presence has the power to choose its “Face” or should it be written first like Zane did? Now that Jagger is gone, can the Dark Presence choose a “New Face” freely or should it be written again first like Zane did with Jagger? But “Who” is going to Write the “New Face” of Darkness? Alan Wake? Why would Alan do that? I thought he was trying to destroy the Dark Presence, now why would Alan try to write it back? Is he insane? Alan just destroyed Jagger, the “Face” of Darkness, and now Alan Wake is going to write it back with a “New Face?” Oyoyoy! I think that is Madness!

If Nightingale would be the “New Face” of Darkness, was he chosen or written? And what would be the mythology behind Nightingale? Bird’s Nest Cabin? The Singing Shag? Terrorize the Town with Night Singing? Some say that a “Gale” is a strong wind. So, maybe Nightingale’s mythology could be to terrorize the town with Strong Winds at Night? Hmmm…….Interesting. F@ck, that sounds like a wicked “Face” of the Dark Presence! But the question is, was he chosen or was he written? If Nightingale indeed would be the “New Face” of Darkness, that is. And “Who” wrote it? Alan Wake? Again, that would be Madness! Why would Alan Wake do that? What do you think Dudes and Dudettes?

These are just the questions I’ve been wondering about the “Face” of Darkness and the “New Face” of Darkness. I wonder if these questions would bring this thread back to life and alive again.


Cheers Everyone!
Jill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2012, 10:58 PM   #1325
Jill
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Anybody out there……………………….Dudes? Dudettes? Care to stretch your Neurons and help me out here.

Just to stir things up a bit, I would like to add a couple of things from what I’ve mentioned before above. As I’ve understood in the Alan Wake game, Jagger became the “Face” of the Dark Presence when Zane wrote Jagger from the dead. But Zane could not do it right, instead Jagger came back to Life as the “Face” of the Dark Presence.

Now, can the Dark Presence choose its “Face” or does somebody needs to write it first like Zane did? If the Dark Presence can choose freely anytime, then Zane need not write Jagger back to life and make that mistake, right? If the Dark Presence can choose freely anytime even if Zane doesn’t write Jagger back to life, that means Zane doesn’t need to make that mistake and there won’t be any Balance needed. Why make the mistake when Zane doesn’t need to in the first place, right? Therefore, there is no balance needed if the Dark Presence could just choose anybody, anytime. And Alan Wake shouldn’t be stuck in the Dark Place because there is no Balance in the first place. But in the game, Zane did write Jagger back to life, and she came out as the “Face” of the Dark Presence. That’s how Jagger came about to be the “Face” of the Dark Presence and that is Zane’s mistake. So now, the Balance metaphor exists because of that. That’s how the story goes. That’s how I understood it.

But now that Jagger is gone, can the Dark Presence choose freely or does it need to follow the story and this Balance metaphor again that somebody should die first and then a “Writer” writes this dead person back to life and make a mistake so that the Dark Presence can have a “New Face?” That’s how Jagger came about as the “Face” of the Dark Presence in the first place, right? If the Dark Presence needs a “New Face” can it choose freely or does it need to be written first just like Zane did? If the Dark Presence can choose its “New Face” freely, then there is no Balance again. Why did Zane make a mistake of writing Jagger back to life in the beginning if the Dark Presence could just freely choose Jagger without Zane writing it in the first place? If the Dark Presence could now choose freely anytime its “New Face,” then the Dark Presence could also choose Jagger in the beginning without Zane writing Jagger back to life. That would break this Balancing metaphor including Zane’s mistake and Alan being stuck in the Dark Place!

So, does this mean that the Dark Presence can’t choose a “New Face” without a Writer writing it? Hmmm…Interesting! “Who” would “Write” it now? Don’t tell me it’s Alan Wake because that is Madness! Again Alan Wake just defeated Jagger, his enemy! Why is Alan going to write the “New Face” for the Dark Presence if the Dark Presence is the enemy? Oyoyoy! Madness!

What do you think Dudes and Dudettes? Can you help me out with this dilemma?


Cheers Everybody!
Jill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2012, 07:37 AM   #1326
Pickman

Pickman's Avatar
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

I don't have answers, but I can stir the pot some more. Who knows maybe I come up with something while I write (think).

What are the requirements to become the dark host...dead? Do you need an tragic story to become one? Like you said, the town folk created the legend of the old hag, who drowned at the lake and is now haunting Brightfalls.

If Nightingale is the new face, we don't know yet but it is the one that has majority of votes to become one. What is his story? You might have answered your question yourself.

Maybe it doesn't choose it's new face, but the people with their inclination to create ghost stories from horrible events does.

No... but Zane brought it back before the folk stories, or did he??

Man, why can't we know what Zane wrote. Cos maybe when Zane wrote Barbara back, he also had to write about the drowning so it would match the situation he was in. He was probably going for a sweet romantic type of poem where the two lover rejoin each other.
The dark beings, or the lake thought otherwise and created this monster story of the dead bride, because that makes more sense than a happy reunion with Zane and Barbara. Barbara is dead you numb nuts!!

So here we are again, how does the new face come to be and I've got nothing.

Rusty's death, could be explained by some giant bear attack. Don't ask!!

Hartman's death. This could be a interesting story, Hartman disappears mysteriously, when bunch of loonies escape the lodge. Is now haunting the lodge, drawn into people that create art.

Nightingale's death...killed mysteriously in the police station, while....I don't know this is going no where.

Well I tried, hope this gives you some ideas, that you might share with us.

I don't wanna be buried in a pet cemetary
Pickman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2012, 01:35 PM   #1327
Jill
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Yeah, some interesting ideas there Dude. That surely stirred the pot a little bit more for everyone……......but not for me (Sneaky Me!)

I don’t think the stories from the townsfolk created the story of Zane and Jagger. If the townsfolk did that, then there is no Balance again because their story is just created by the townsfolk. And there are people connected to Zane and Jagger, like Dr. Hartman and Cynthia Weaver. Are they created by stories of the townsfolk too? I doubt it.

I would rather stick to the actual story of the game where Zane wrote Jagger back from the dead. But Zane could not do it right, instead Jagger came back to Life as the “Face” of the Dark Presence. That’s how Jagger came about to be the “Face” of the Dark Presence and that is how Zane made this Balancing mistake. So now, the Balance metaphor exists because of that. Cynthia Weaver even mentions this mistake in the game. And so did Alan Wake. That’s how the story goes. That’s how I understood it. But that’s just me…….....(Again, Sneaky, Sneaky Me!)

And about Zane’s writing is not such a big deal to me. We can know it or we can’t, it’s not so important in the game’s story. What is important in the game’s story is that Zane made a mistake. Zane’s mistake is the reason why Alan Wake is saying these Balancing metaphors that Zane did not follow correctly. I believe that is what’s important in the game’s story. But that’s just me………….(Again, Triple Sneaky Me!)

I don’t mind Nightingale being the “New Face” of Darkness. I think the mythology behind his name is kind of cool as well. I mean, “Gale” for “Strong Wind,” and then at Night – “Nightingale” – that’s perfect! I like the “Singing Shag” too, you know, terrorize the town with wild, strong, “Howling” wind (and maybe some “Night Shagging” too! F@ck, I’m getting Hrny again!)

My only concern about Nightingale being the “New Face” of Darkness is that we see it happening at the end of the first Alan Wake game. And in my own understanding, again this is just me; Nightingale’s story at the end of the first game is still part of the “Departure” story. You see, for me, the ending story of the first game is still written in the “Departure” story. Near the end of the game, Alan said he knows how to write the ending of the story. And when Jagger was eliminated in the end, Alan sat down and writes this ending until he finishes typing which is the “Ellipsis,” the “three dots or periods” that we see before the end credits roll. For me, that was the end of the “Departure” manuscript.

Meaning, Nightingale’s story in the end of the game where he stands behind Rose looking suspicious inside a dark room is still part of the “Departure” story. And who wrote the “Departure” story? – Alan Wake – Now, if Nightingale is the “New Face” of Darkness, that means Alan Wake wrote it inside his “Departure” ending story. Now why would Alan Wake do that? Is he insane?! Alan just finished-off Jagger and now Alan is also writing Nightingale as the “New Face” of Darkness? What the F@ck!!! I thought Alan Wake was trying to destroy the Dark Presence? As a matter of fact, Alan just destroyed Jagger, the “Face” of Darkness, and now Alan is also writing Nightingale as the “New Face” of Darkness? Is he F@cking Mad?!!!

I would be terribly disappointed with Alan if Nightingale would really come out as the “New Face” of Darkness. I mean, for me, it would come out as if this is Alan Wake’s own Mad Idea about Nightingale being the “New Face” of Darkness. But that’s just me………..(Again, Quadruple Sneaky Me!)

Anyway, the question is not answered yet, and that is if the Dark Presence needs a “New Face,” can it choose freely anytime or does it need to be written first just like Zane did? Now that Jagger is gone, can the Dark Presence choose freely or does it need to follow the story and this Balance metaphor again that somebody should die first and then a “Writer” writes this dead person back to life and make a mistake so that the Dark Presence can have a “New Face?” That’s how Jagger came about as the “Face” of the Dark Presence in the first place, right? If the Dark Presence can choose its “New Face” freely anytime, then there is no Balance again. Why did Zane make a mistake of writing Jagger back to life in the beginning if the Dark Presence could just freely choose Jagger without Zane writing it in the first place? If the Dark Presence could now choose freely anytime its “New Face,” then the Dark Presence could also choose Jagger in the beginning without Zane writing Jagger back to life. That would break this Balancing metaphor including Zane’s mistake and Alan being stuck in the Dark Place!

So, does this mean that the Dark Presence can’t choose a “New Face” without a Writer writing it? If that is the case, “Who” would “Write” it now? Pleeeeeease don’t tell me it’s Alan Wake again because that is just F@cking Madness!

What do you think Dudes and Dudettes of the Free World? Care to stretch those Neurons of yours and help us out here with this dilemma?


Cheers Everybody!
Jill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2012, 07:39 PM   #1328
Pickman

Pickman's Avatar
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill
I don’t think the stories from the townsfolk created the story of Zane and Jagger. If the townsfolk did that, then there is no Balance again because their story is just created by the townsfolk. And there are people connected to Zane and Jagger, like Dr. Hartman and Cynthia Weaver. Are they created by stories of the townsfolk too? I doubt it.
No I didn't mean they created the Zane, Jagger story. I meant that the ghost stories, that people make AFTER when things like Jagger drowning happen.
In a similar way that AWAN Scratch came to be, except it was rumors in that case.
But no I don't think that's it either...maybe.

What I was speculating was that it needs an certain type of person and a story to take over.

I don't wanna be buried in a pet cemetary
Pickman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2012, 12:25 AM   #1329
Jill
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Yeah, that’s a good one Dude. But just like you’ve said, I don’t think that’s it either. Zane and Jagger are real in the Game’s story. I would rather stick to that story. That’s how Jagger came about to be the “Face” of the Dark Presence and that is how Zane made this Balancing mistake in this story. And this Balance metaphor exists because of that story. I think I would rather stick to that story, the Game’s real story.

So, the question is still not answered yet, and that is if the Dark Presence needs a “New Face,” can it choose freely anytime or does it need to be written first just like Zane did? After all, that’s how Jagger came about as the “Face” of the Dark Presence in the first place, right? That’s how Zane made the mistake and that’s how the Balancing metaphor came about as well, right? And if the “New Face” of Darkness needs to be written, “Who” is going to “Write” it now?.....................Don’t even say his name because you already know – It’s Madness!

What do you think folks? Can you stretch those Neurons and help us shed some light on this dilemma? Dudes and Dudettes of the Free World? Feel Free to share with us your deepest, darkest ocean green!


Cheers Everybody!
Jill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2012, 11:38 PM   #1330
Jill
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Hello again Dudes and Dudettes! I’m back to give this thread a little stirring again. So, it seems like nobody wants to stretch their Neurons and share to us their deepest, darkest ocean green. Since “Nobody” knows if the Dark Presence could choose its “New Face” freely anytime or not, I will give you something to think about. Here, check this manuscript page below:



The Dark Presence Sleeps

For decades, the darkness that wore Barbara Jagger's skin slept fitfully in the dark place that was its home and prison. It was hungry and in pain. It dreamed of its nights of glory when the poet's writing had called it from the depths and given it a brief, terrible taste of power and freedom. The rock stars had stirred it from the deep sleep the poet had sunk it back to in the end.



This page above is found in Episode 3 of the game and on the Menu Screen of the game. Check out the “Bold” words on this page above – “the poet’s writing had called it from the depths” – This manuscript page describes how the Dark Presence dreamed of the time when Zane’s writing had called “It” from the depths and gave “It” a brief power and freedom. Zane is the one who “Wrote” and “Called” the “Dark Presence” from the depths and made Jagger the “New Face” of Darkness at that time. Zane is responsible for “Calling” the Dark Presence from the depths. The Dark Presence did not choose Jagger, Zane did! Zane’s writing had called it from the depths! At that time, the Dark Presence did not choose its “New Face” freely. Zane’s writing did!

Now, let’s go back to the present time. Jagger is now gone. The Dark Presence may need a “New Face.” If the Dark Presence needs a “New Face,” can it choose freely anytime or does it need to be written first just like Zane did? Now that Jagger is gone, can the Dark Presence choose freely or does it need to follow the story and this Balance metaphor again that somebody should die first and then a “Writer” writes this dead person back to life and make a mistake so that the Dark Presence can have a “New Face." After all, that’s how Jagger came about as the “Face” of the Dark Presence in the first place, right? According to the manuscript page above, that’s how Zane wrote and called the Dark Presence from the depths. That’s how Zane made the mistake and that’s how the Balancing metaphor came about as well, right?

There are a lot of indications that points to the “New Face” of Darkness being written first and not really chosen by the Dark Presence just like Zane did to Jagger before. Does this mean that the “New Face” of Darkness really needs to be written first? And if the “New Face” of Darkness needs to be written first, “Who” is going to “Write” it now?.....................Again, don’t even say his name because you already know – It’s just F@cking Madness!

What do you think now folks? Again just feel Free to share with us your deepest, darkest ocean green!


Cheers Everyone!
Last edited by Jill; 05-13-2012 at 11:41 PM.
Jill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 04:01 PM   #1331
funkyclover
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Just finished the game..
Red most of the pages but I wanted to post my own take on things before i forgot them

SPOILLLER:

1- Mr. Scratchy or Mr. Evil: I will point two scenes at the end cut scene of the game. First of all we see Alan using the clicker and they show the mountain peak and the lake. Right after that a very small scene where Alan or MR. Scratchy is opening his eyes. So I think he is waking up as Alan starts writing the ending in the cabin. Right after that 2 second scene we see Alice swimming up towards the surface. Second is that we see Alan writing the ending: he writes " It was not a lake but an ocean.. " When he says " the ocean " part his voice distorts and sounds like the taken`s voice we hear through out the game when they attack us. That takes me to the manuscript page where it says" darkness knew it needed the writers mind. Taken were only shells to use they had no mind. That`s why darkness only touches Alan. "
NOW very important part ( i didn`t see anyone mention this ): remember Alan can`t write? Why? I don`t know so if anyone knows please enlighten me. BUT when he tries to write ( like at doctors lodge he wanted to write something fake but couldn`t) the bright white paper shines and almosts hurts his eyes like TAKEN!
So my theory (if I connect all of these ) would be that at the end Alan seperated his own taken self or Tom did ( which I think Tom is Alan or Alan is Tom`s son but that is another theory anyway look number 2 for this please) as MR. Scrathy. He isn`t evil like the dark presence. I think he only is a `bad guy` remember flashback where Alice is angry at Alan cause he drank too much and worried his wife that kind of a bad guy.
Also Alice says in her voice record he is not the man she married with, he changed a lot, he doesn`t even WRITE anymore and keeps her worrying. When Alan rewinded the time.. He didn`t rewind it just to the day arrived at bright falls or when Alice drowned. He rewinded it WAAAAY before. that explains why Alan can`t write cause he is Mr. Scratchy not the real one. The real one is still trapped in darkness and still is touched by darkness thats why even if he is trying to end darkness he can`t cause no matter how much he resists he sometimes obeys the darkness. hence his voice changing during the `ocean` part. That was not HIM writing that to make a twist that was DARKNESS that wanted to beat Alan and become much more stronger to come back in his story. Since compared to lakes oceans are much more bigger and endless. Guess that was like a wise move made by darkness or an insurance to come back into the story. And the story Alan writes? I think he was trying to write it from the very begining :not JUST to change the ending. A hint for this: at the first nightmare he says " he was a hitchhiker from a story I have been working on.." how is that possible? Wasn`t Alan unable to write for a while ? Wasn`t that the reason why they came to Bright Falls in the first place? ( Considering Alice`s intentions anyway) So how can that be a character -and obviously a horror story character from the way he looks) Alan was working on considering he was unable to write?

Who knows heck it maybe even a loop that goes on and on.. Like Alan tries to write the story but it never ends perfect like he wants to thus he keeps changing the story by rewinding the time?..



2- Tom and Alan.

I think:
a) Tom and Alan could be related - father and son. Which can mean that Barbara was his mother. He doesn`t recognise her even though he meets him at the diner for the first time cause he was adopted. ( yeah very cliche! XD )
b) Alan is Tom`s imagination. His main character he wrote the first time when he was fighting with the darkness in the 70`s. Remember everything written by the lake comes true? That is why Alan became reality.
c) Similiar to b, when Tom was writing the ending he wanted a loophole in the darkness thats why he wrote about a kid named Alan which could be the main hero if the darkness wanted to rise again. Darkness knew about Alan cause it read the manuscript when Tom first wrote it. That is why it was Alan the darkness was after not just another Joe. It said in a script page again that darkness was sleeping deep in the lake and opened its eyes when it felt the presence of the writer in the ferry.

Also in a cript page we learn that Tom had an asistant. What is his relation to all this it said Tom wanted to keep writing for his assistant. Who could that be and his role in this sroty?
And don`t they say that Barbara died by the lake 2 weeks before Alan and his wife came to bright falls at the beggining of the game?.. Think it was at the diner, Rose said it?

There are many more stuff to write but I become scatter brain so more to come later if i can dig it more.
Last edited by funkyclover; 05-20-2012 at 05:30 PM.
funkyclover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 07:06 PM   #1332
Jill
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

I don’t think that’s it either. Several people already mentioned it before here on this same thread that if Alan is just in the Dark Place writing everything and then rewound time and sends Mr. Scratch back in time to follow the story, it would produce multiple Alan Wakes and Mr. Scratches getting stuck in the Dark Place as the story progresses. The only way that Mr. Scratch could go back in time and avoid creating multiple Alan Wakes as the story progresses is if Mr. Scratch would go back in time as Alan Wake. Like Mr. Scratch goes back as Alan Wake. Like Mr. Scratch is Alan Wake and Alan Wake is Mr. Scratch. But that’s just ME! (Sneaky, Sneaky ME!)


Cheers!
Last edited by Jill; 05-20-2012 at 07:13 PM.
Jill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2012, 09:10 AM   #1333
grzybek010
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

I hope there is still someone active in this thread

So, I want to share some of my thoughts about the game, mainly about the plot and ending. So let's start from the very begining.
1. The story starts with the Alan's nightmare. In that nightmare, Alan says, that the man in shadows who is trying to kill him, is a hero of a story he has written, but he doesn't remember any words of it. But wait, stop for a moment. He hasn't arrived to Bright Falls yet, so how the hell he could have written that story ?! So in this case, how should we interpretate this chapter? Is it a part of a story he is going to write, I mean, a chapter of a story we were playing whole the game? Or, maybe, everything is a story created by Zane ?
2.How should we explain that Divers's Island ? I mean, how would they see it, and get there, if it was just below the lake, under the water ? The only way to explain it, is that Bright Falls is a strange place, and strange things happens there, even without Alan's story.
3.Lets take a look at the behaviour of Alice. She wants Alan to write. There are several situation, when we see, that she wants him to go back to writing: On the begining, in some of the cutscenes... and Alan doesnt like it at all. Similar situation with Dr Hartman. And this is also an interseting thing : Why Alan CAN"T write anything. It dosent look like he is out of inspiration, it seemse more like he is terrified with that blank piece of paper. And now we should ask : Why everyone wants Alan go back to writing, and why he can't do this?
4.Zane "itself", how did he get into the story? As I remember, in the movies Alan realized, that the dark powers want him to write a horror, and it is not a correct way to rescue Alice. He wrote himslef into a story. And, as we know from the cutscene, after he drank some of Anderson's alcochol, he got out of the cabin, with Zane's help. Zane is also the one, who gives Alan the papers of the story he wrote, cause, as he said, the plot has to be free. But wait, did Alan wrote him into the story? Or has he just "happend"?
5. Let's skip to the final chapter, to the last moments. And here we have Mr. Scratch. Who the hell is he?! On Wikipedia, he is shown as someone bad, as Mr. Devil. So why Zane gave him as a replacement for Alan? And again, why ZANE did it. Whose story is it, Alan's or Zane's? Why Zane has got so huge control of the story? He rescued Alan in some cases. He gave him the main item of the game, btw how the hell he has that Clicker?! .
And now, that freaking line "it's not a lake, it's an ocean" : It HAS TO be connected with the very begining, again with Zane, with the words he said, about the green ocean beyond the lake. But what does it really mean ?
6. Let's take a look at Bright Falls after Alan jumped into the lake. Hartman, Rose, Nightindale, everyone is alive, like nothing happend. But Rose and Nightindale replaced old Cinthia And Barbara. Who did it? Is it possible that Alan sacriface everything, even himself and the peace in Bright Falls just for Alice?

So now, lets find a theory. For me it seems a little bit like it's Zane, who created Alan and his life, and his mission was to help Zane with something. But helps with what ? Was Zane a possitive Character? Maybe it's he, who created a "good" reality, just to make Alan ... I will finish it by the moment wait
Last edited by grzybek010; 06-10-2012 at 11:23 AM. Reason: I must go somehere
grzybek010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 06:48 PM   #1334
grzybek010
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

... to make Alan belive in what he says, and "force" him to finish it.

BTW: The theory with shizoprhenia is godd, very good... but too simply for me. The only thing that doesnt match this one, is a Deerfest in Bright Falls, with Rose and agent, as you know who...


But after sometime... U remember what was said at the begining? Alan said, that every horror story should have a mysterious ending... And here we are. Maybe there is nothing to think about?
grzybek010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 12:07 PM   #1335
the deft one(s)
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

After skimming through a few posts in this thread, the 'schizophrenia' theory makes the most sense but it can't be so cut-and-dry as it seems to ignore the most significant element of Alan Wake's journey that stuck out like a sore thumb to me : It REEKS of guilt and resentment. I actually played the game when it came out on the 360 and had already made the following theory after I got done with it, but it was more of a fleeting thought that I just sorta brushed away. I recently finished the game on the PC again and that repressed revelation reared it's head again. If I ignore any significant plot elements or if I contradict myself, feel free to point that out but don't flame me...Please . So, here we go:

Alan Wake is most definitely schizophrenic. One of the defining traits of a person diagnosed with this mental ailment is creativity, and that is how our protagonist manages to become a successful writer. Now, the game doesn't tell you when or how Alan and Alice got hitched, but it would be a good bet to assume that it was after his breakout into the mainstream literary world. Now this is where it gets a little ambiguous : Did Alice marry Alan because she saw that he was a great way to be set-for-life and that his mental illness made him easily manipulable OR was it a textbook romance. Either way, this
doesn't seem to particularly matter to the next part of my theory, which we shall get to shortly. Of all the flashback sequences, the one where Alan wakes up all hungover and sh** stood out to me the most. Because:
a) Alan seemed to detest the light and was desperate to put on his sunglasses.
b) Alice was getting increasingly naggy about Alan's writing and their marriage was slowly failing.
Another interesting tidbit was the tivo segment with Sam Lake, where the host questions Wake about an incident with the paparazzi, which clearly shows that Alan had anger management problems as a direct result of his schizophrenia, although he doesn't have an actual episode until later on. All of which, finally brings me to the actual meat of the theory:

Alan Wake killed his wife.

"Why the f**k would he do that?" is the obvious question at this stage, but think about it. Why is Alice always telling Alan to write in all of his flashbacks and even in the opening sections of the game? That HAS to serve a point. And when Alan becomes increasingly detached from his writing, Alice decides to employ the services of Emil Hartman in Bright Falls. So, basically, the possibility of Alan being drunk one night, being constantly berated and nagged by his wife to write and then going full schizo and killing her is high. The specific location of the murder is debatable, but I'm willing to bet Alan pushes her in a fit of rage from a high place, accidentally or otherwise (This is alluded to in Bird's Leg Cabin, where Alice is supposedly pushed by Barbara Jagger into the lake, where she drowns.) After killing Alice, Alan is consumed by guilt and decides to escape to Bright Falls (as he already knows about the place because of Alice's wish to seek Emil's help). Alice's disappearance in New York and Alan's little vacation makes him a wanted fugitive, which explains the FBI's involvement (Nightingale, anyone?). Alan imagines Alice to be there with him while he travels via boat to the town and imagines Barbara Jagger in the restroom (wtf was she doing there, anyway?) . There were no keys to the cabin, because there was no cabin at all. At this point Alan begins to construct this huge elaborate fantasy in his head in order to convince himself that he is not guilty (which makes up for most of the plot with zane, barbara, the dark place etc.), totally schizes out and crashes his car. Then he wakes up and proceeds into the forest and has paranoid delusions of guys wielding axes covered in clouds of black.

Now, naturally I have some doubts about my own theory:
a) Is Alice a manipulative b**** who sought to take advantage of Alan's condition or an innocent victim of Alan's mental instability?
b) Does Emil Hartman also seek to milk some cash out of the writer himself by institutionalizing him?
c) Does Alan imagine the Taken or are the Taken actually real people that Alan kills in his paranoid hallucinatory state. This can be further exemplified by the fact that the Taken utter lines that seem normal when taken out of context but sound warped and twisted like to a guy who is having a bad acid trip.

And now for the huge gaping holes in my theory:
a) Barry and Sheriff Breaker can see the Taken. Are they figments of Alan's imagination as well, in which case he would have to have a s***load of imaginary people in his head because they seem to correspond with the locals normally.
b) Rose being touched by the dark presence and her weirdness being out in the open, in addition to that sinister glare she gives you in the ending cinematic.
c) Cynthia Weaver

I know my theory reads more like a fanfic, but the basic idea is still there. Now, someone just has to explain the gaping holes.
the deft one(s) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 12:13 PM   #1336
the deft one(s)
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Oh, and one more gaping hole : Pat Maine can see Alice as he complements her on the ferry. Btw, did you guys notice how it says "Psychological Action Thriller" on the cover but the game has all these supernatural elements in them?
the deft one(s) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 01:49 PM   #1337
Celeste

Celeste's Avatar
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by the deft one(s) View Post
Btw, did you guys notice how it says "Psychological Action Thriller" on the cover but the game has all these supernatural elements in them?
This was actually addressed in a thread a long time ago.. I can't remember which one, but personally my take on it is that "psychological" doesn't refer to the idea that it's all in Alan's head, but rather that it's largely about his psychological struggle. The stuff that happens is real. He's not schizophrenic. Things can be metaphors and also actually happen — that's sort of the whole point, IMO, that this stuff that normally would be symbolic in the fiction actually manifests into real, dangerous stuff. It's not just a psychological thriller because he has to deal with his demons in reality, not only his head (hence the "action"). Now, I do think Alan struggles with himself psychologically. To me, that's one of the major themes of the game (even more so the DLC): the intersection/interaction of creativity and psychology. But that's not the same thing as saying he's completely delusional.

Alan being schizophrenic might seem to be a really neat and tidy way to explain everything, but it actually breaks the whole story. I mean, the main crux of the plot is that creative ideas can manifest into reality. If he just imagined that, then what's the point of any of it? That's really no different from "it was all a dream." Plus, I think the game itself debunks the "he's just crazy and Alice is dead" theory with the Hartman stuff. I'm sure Remedy knew people would latch onto that theory, and making Alan himself question his own sanity sort of feeds into that a bit, but then it becomes clear that the DP, etc. is real. Now, I guess you could say Alan just surrenders to his delusions, but as you said, that doesn't explain all the other characters' experiences, how Alice comes back later if she's supposedly dead, or any of the other things this theory doesn't explain. (Plus, Nightingale isn't even there on official FBI business, and doesn't it seem like he would have mentioned Alice being dead to someone if that were his purpose in being there?)

Also, being schizophrenic doesn't automatically make you a crazed killer. Plenty of people have schizophrenia and are completely harmless. Having mental illness does not necessarily mean someone's dangerous (nor vice versa).

So, I mean, I see what you're going for, but to me those gaping holes are much bigger than the area the theory itself covers.
Celeste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 02:33 PM   #1338
MikkiRMD

MikkiRMD's Avatar

Remedy
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
Having mental illness does not necessarily mean someone's dangerous (nor vice versa).
Yeah, very, very few people with mental illnesses are dangerous. It does happen, but seriously, it's extremely rare. Even people who end up in mental institutions are there typically not because they're dangerous to other people, but because they can't look after themselves, or because they're suicidal, or something.

Like the occasional stupid remark? Follow me on Twitter: @MikkiRMD
MikkiRMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2012, 03:52 PM   #1339
havenoidea
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Read only first 15 or so pages and didn't see it being mentioned, anyway, Thomas as a name means "twin", and if you shift consonants in the name 'Wake' by 4 in their alphabetic order (KLMN, WXYZ) then you get Zane. This suggests that Wake and Zane are indeed the same person, however I'm still not sure who's whose twin.
havenoidea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2012, 04:00 PM   #1340
havenoidea
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Also maybe 4 means that Alan Wake is a 4-th iteration/generation (since 1970s) and Zane was rewriting his story over and over, and some pieces of previous stories sometime meddle in, confusing everyone. This also explains that Rose is a "new generation" Cynthia. YEah and in reality he is in a mental hospital with Hartman. There is some similarity between Hartman and the Dark Presence (both are editors and ask to write), maybe the Dark Presence is a metaphor for his doctor.
havenoidea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2012, 04:08 PM   #1341
havenoidea
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Maybe i'm going crazy but Emil stems from Aemilius which sounds like aemulus, "a rival." I.e. in the mind of a schizophrenic person, the doctor maybe indeed some sort of a bad guy (if the schizophrenic person is not aware of their condition)
havenoidea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2012, 06:13 PM   #1342
Heruss

Heruss's Avatar
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill View Post
The Dark Presence Sleeps

For decades, the darkness that wore Barbara Jagger's skin slept fitfully in the dark place that was its home and prison. It was hungry and in pain. It dreamed of its nights of glory when the poet's writing had called it from the depths and given it a brief, terrible taste of power and freedom. The rock stars had stirred it from the deep sleep the poet had sunk it back to in the end.



This page above is found in Episode 3 of the game and on the Menu Screen of the game. Check out the “Bold” words on this page above – “the poet’s writing had called it from the depths” – This manuscript page describes how the Dark Presence dreamed of the time when Zane’s writing had called “It” from the depths and gave “It” a brief power and freedom. Zane is the one who “Wrote” and “Called” the “Dark Presence” from the depths and made Jagger the “New Face” of Darkness at that time. Zane is responsible for “Calling” the Dark Presence from the depths. The Dark Presence did not choose Jagger, Zane did! Zane’s writing had called it from the depths! At that time, the Dark Presence did not choose its “New Face” freely. Zane’s writing did!
I would argue "unintended consequence" someone notes during the game (Weaver perhaps? Or Walker) that Jagger was "a strong swimmer" yet she drowned in Cauldron Lake.

'Till in the stillness of one dawn
Still in its misty crown
The muse she went down to the lake
And in the waves she drowned


Considering Alice somehow was thrown from the balcony into the Lake in Season One it's not exactly hard to assume the Presence did exactly the same to Barbara, she was swimming in the damn thing in comparison, significantly less effort required on the presence of the Dark Place.

And when he swore to bring back his love
By the stories he'd create
Nightmares shifted in their sleep
In the darkness of the lake


This is where, thanks to the use of Jaggers death Zane begins to try and return her to life, this is at Emil Hartman's behest who somehow already knows (or has noted) that whatever Zane writes, the world around responds to. This begins to give the "nightmares" aka the Dark Presence more power, it gives it a physical avatar which it fills using the vessel of Jagger's body, which is at the bottom of the lake.

In the dead of night she came to him
With darkness in her eyes
Wearing a mourning gown
Sweet words as her disguise

He took her in without a word
For he saw his grave mistake
And vowed them both to silence
Deep beneath the lake


It kind of skips a few bits here, but it's assumed that things go awry and Taken do appear. So Zane has to hatch a plan, his creations are to blame and without Jagger he cannot feel himself to live, certainly not normally, so he causes the Cauldron Lake eruption of 1970.

Quote:
Now, let’s go back to the present time. Jagger is now gone. The Dark Presence may need a “New Face.” If the Dark Presence needs a “New Face,” can it choose freely anytime or does it need to be written first just like Zane did?

Again, I argue that Zane didn't per se choose the face of the Dark Presence, the DP had already taken Jagger and attempted to use subtlety to help set it fully free. Would you pick a random face or one which you can use to influence the decisions of the one who holds the key to your freedom?

Honestly, answer that.


Quote:
Now that Jagger is gone, can the Dark Presence choose freely or does it need to follow the story and this Balance metaphor again that somebody should die first and then a “Writer” writes this dead person back to life and make a mistake so that the Dark Presence can have a “New Face."
Yet, from the way the end of Season One (and everyone feels) that Nightingale is the new face of the Darkness... what happens to him is completely ambiguous in the First season and the manuscript pages.

Deliberately so. He's hoovered out of the Sherriff's place like someone attacked him with the worlds biggest Dust Buster but we don't know what actually happens to him.

We know that his partner was possessed by the Dark Presence and forced Nightingale to kill him. This got him kicked out of the FBI and because he kept seeing Wake in his dreams he hunted him down as a result, convinced that Wake had something to do with it.

Only thing is... Wake had nothing to do with it. This was all manipulation by the Dark Presence of the situation to give Wake some kind of other danger from forces that were clearly touched by the Dark Presence, the idea being to turn just about everyone possible against him. Local Law Enforcement would be useful in putting Wake into one place that the DP could then take him back and use him.


Quote:
After all, that’s how Jagger came about as the “Face” of the Dark Presence in the first place, right? According to the manuscript page above, that’s how Zane wrote and called the Dark Presence from the depths. That’s how Zane made the mistake and that’s how the Balancing metaphor came about as well, right?
Not as I pointed out. No. The Presence caused Jagger to drown, and Zane happened to give it the "avatar" almost of her to try and influence his writing further to release it fully.

Quote:
There are a lot of indications that points to the “New Face” of Darkness being written first and not really chosen by the Dark Presence just like Zane did to Jagger before. Does this mean that the “New Face” of Darkness really needs to be written first? And if the “New Face” of Darkness needs to be written first, “Who” is going to “Write” it now?.....................Again, don’t even say his name because you already know – It’s just F@cking Madness!

What do you think now folks? Again just feel Free to share with us your deepest, darkest ocean green!


Cheers Everyone!
No, it doesn't as shown with the way Nightingale appears to be the new avatar, this was never written and indeed it's suggested that the hoovering of Robert just resulted in him being touched by the Dark Presence.

Now, if it was just touched instead this means the avatar retains significant faculties. The Dark Presence could lie to Robert and make him continue to hunt and hate Wake. It'd influence him but not make him outright a shell.
Heruss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2012, 10:53 PM   #1343
Celeste

Celeste's Avatar
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by havenoidea View Post
Read only first 15 or so pages and didn't see it being mentioned, anyway, Thomas as a name means "twin", and if you shift consonants in the name 'Wake' by 4 in their alphabetic order (KLMN, WXYZ) then you get Zane. This suggests that Wake and Zane are indeed the same person, however I'm still not sure who's whose twin.
I actually made a post a while ago about some of the name meanings in the game. It might interest you =)
Celeste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 03:47 AM   #1344
Jill
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Hello-hello! What’s up Dudes and Dudettes? Keeping this thread busy? It’s good to be back talking about something stimulating.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Heruss View Post
'Till in the stillness of one dawn
Still in its misty crown
The muse she went down to the lake
And in the waves she drowned

And when he swore to bring back his love
By the stories he'd create
Nightmares shifted in their sleep
In the darkness of the lake

In the dead of night she came to him
With darkness in her eyes
Wearing a mourning gown
Sweet words as her disguise

He took her in without a word
For he saw his grave mistake
And vowed them both to silence
Deep beneath the lake

Yeah, this sounds like one of the songs written by the Old gods which is written by Alan Wake in his Departure manuscript even before knowing and hearing this song and then it became a reality after writing it. I’ve written something in “Theory” about this song and the Old gods somewhere in another thread. I will avoid repeating myself and sounding redundant here, so I will give you a Link for it if you are interested. Here it is below:

http://community.remedygames.com/showthread.php?t=7997

Enjoy reading it Folks!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Heruss View Post
Would you pick a random face or one which you can use to influence the decisions of the one who holds the key to your freedom?

Good question. But why choose somebody to use? Why not choose a face that already holds the key? Isn’t Zane a Diver and probably has been diving in the Lake several times before Jagger even died? If the Dark Presence is so powerful, why not use Zane directly as the “Face” of Darkness instead of going the indirect way through Jagger? And who holds the key to the Dark Presence’s freedom? Zane? But the DP was not freed by Zane. After Zane jumped into the Lake, the DP’s power to be free was also lost even though Jagger is still the “Face” of Darkness. Where is that power now? It appears that the DP aint’ so powerful at all. It is always in search of an artist for the last 30 years. After all the chaos, “touching” people, “taking” people, and tornado of death, the DP has no power to be free? All of these acts by the DP are already written. And all of this, it seems like this entire story is now written in Alan Wake’s “Departure” manuscript. Alan Wake holds the key? Alan Wake holds the power? And now Alan Wake is writing again called “Return?” Does that mean everything that is going to happen in the sequel is written again by Alan Wake in “Return?”


Quote:
Originally Posted by Heruss View Post
Yet, from the way the end of Season One (and everyone feels) that Nightingale is the new face of the Darkness... what happens to him is completely ambiguous in the First season and the manuscript pages.

No, it doesn't as shown with the way Nightingale appears to be the new avatar, this was never written and indeed it's suggested that the hoovering of Robert just resulted in him being touched by the Dark Presence.

I agree with you on this one. We don’t know exactly what happened to Agent Nightingale yet. I’ve mentioned this above in post # 1322. Was he taken or was he just touched? Is he dead or still alive but already touched by the DP? And I am not here to argue but I believe Alan Wake finished his “Departure” manuscript at the end of the game when he typed the ellipsis (…) So, “theoretically speaking” Nightingale’s and Rose’s story at the end of the first game is already written by Alan Wake in the Departure manuscript. But that’s just Me! (Sneaky Me!)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Heruss View Post
I would argue "unintended consequence" someone notes during the game

Again, I argue that Zane didn't per se choose the face of the Dark Presence, the DP had already taken Jagger and attempted to use subtlety to help set it fully free.

I don’t think arguing is the way to go here. Arguing would only lead to closure of these threads. I hate it when this specific flourishing thread will be closed down just because of some petty argument. The best way to go is to respect other people’s opinions and theories. And that is exactly what we should all do. To each his own and I wish you all the best in your theory. As for me, I would also stick to my Theories for now.


Cheers!
Jill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 04:02 AM   #1345
Celeste

Celeste's Avatar
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill View Post
Good question. But why choose somebody to use? Why not choose a face that already holds the key? Isn’t Zane a Diver and probably has been diving in the Lake several times before Jagger even died? If the Dark Presence is so powerful, why not use Zane directly as the “Face” of Darkness instead of going the indirect way through Jagger?
Maybe the Face of Darkness can't be the same person as the creator. The DP needs to manipulate the creator to give it more power, but the creator has to be at least somewhat autonomous in order to create.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill View Post
And now Alan Wake is writing again called “Return?” Does that mean everything that is going to happen in the sequel is written again by Alan Wake in “Return?”
"Return" is the Night Springs episode in AWAN. So he's already written it. There'll probably be a new manuscript (more likely another novel, I'd think) in AW2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill View Post
I don’t think arguing is the way to go here. Arguing would only lead to closure of these threads.
I think by "argue" Heruss meant "assert" as opposed to "fight." =)
Last edited by Celeste; 07-02-2012 at 04:08 AM.
Celeste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 04:25 AM   #1346
Jill
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by the deft one(s) View Post
Btw, did you guys notice how it says "Psychological Action Thriller" on the cover but the game has all these supernatural elements in them?

This kind of puzzles me a little bit in general. I mean, I am not an expert in literature or in films or in any other medium of entertainment. But what does it exactly mean when a genre has “Psychological” elements in its presentation and delivery? What does it mean when you see a medium with a genre that says “Psychological?”

Is there an insane person involve? Are we dealing with Psychos and the Human Psyche in its presentation? Are there Psychotic characters involved? Do we see these “Psychological” manifestations in characters when a medium is labeled with a “Psychological” genre? When do we see it? In the beginning, in the end or the entire time?

In reality, it is rare that you would encounter “Psychotic” people killing another human being. I’ve seen diagnosed “Psychotic” patients becoming violent, but I haven’t seen one killing another human being. In some cases, people who have done some heinous crime are later diagnosed with psychosis after committing the crimes. Some are even judged with an insanity plea from their lawyers and are deemed “Psychotic” by professionals after the trial.

But in entertainment, what does it exactly mean when you see a medium with a genre that says “Psychological?”
Jill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 04:45 AM   #1347
Jill
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
Maybe the Face of Darkness can't be the same person as the creator. The DP needs to manipulate the creator to give it more power, but the creator has to be at least somewhat autonomous in order to create.

Did you just use the word “Maybe” in the beginning there? Then I would take it as a “theory” and not a fact, right? If that is the case, I respect that. But I don’t buy it. I was pertaining to how powerful the Dark Presence is in the first place. After all the chaos, “touching” people, “taking” people, and tornado of death, the DP has no power to be free? All of these acts by the DP are already written. And all of this, it seems like this entire story is now written in Alan Wake’s “Departure” manuscript. But that’s just Me! (Sneaky Me!)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
"Return" is the Night Springs episode in AWAN. So he's already written it. There'll probably be a new manuscript (more likely another novel, I'd think) in AW2.

I was pertaining to the end of the 2nd DLC, “The Writer.” Was Alan wake writing something called “Return?” Is that his next manuscript? It’s been awhile since I’ve played “The Writer” and I could swear that Alan Wake was writing another manuscript called “Return” at the end of that game. I hope I am not mistaken.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
I think by "argue" Heruss meant "assert" as opposed to "fight." =)

Oh, I see. It sometimes happens to me, you know, taking the words literally. Anyway, I just avoid arguing especially in an active, flourishing thread that started 2 years ago.


Cheers!
Jill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 01:27 PM   #1348
Celeste

Celeste's Avatar
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill View Post
Did you just use the word “Maybe” in the beginning there? Then I would take it as a “theory” and not a fact, right? If that is the case, I respect that. But I don’t buy it. I was pertaining to how powerful the Dark Presence is in the first place. After all the chaos, “touching” people, “taking” people, and tornado of death, the DP has no power to be free? All of these acts by the DP are already written. And all of this, it seems like this entire story is now written in Alan Wake’s “Departure” manuscript. But that’s just Me! (Sneaky Me!)
Well, yes, most of what people post on the forums is speculation. I don't know that for a fact, I'm just guessing, but I think it's an educated guess. The DP doesn't have much power at all when it's dormant. It was barely able to sneak into the diner as Barbara to trick Alan, and then trick both the Wakes with the cabin. After that point, all its power came from Alan, but once he used the Clicker, it was subdued and doesn't have that power anymore. It still has some, since Nightingale seems to be its new face and he's out and about, but it won't be able to do much beyond that, I don't think, without a creator to make it reality. If it could, it would have already. Instead, it seems to still be dormant at least a year later (probably two years).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill View Post
I was pertaining to the end of the 2nd DLC, “The Writer.” Was Alan wake writing something called “Return?” Is that his next manuscript? It’s been awhile since I’ve played “The Writer” and I could swear that Alan Wake was writing another manuscript called “Return” at the end of that game. I hope I am not mistaken.
At the end of The Writer, he started writing something called "Return". I, and probably everyone else, assumed it would be another novel, but it turned out to be the TV episode in AWAN.
Celeste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 07:39 PM   #1349
Jill
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
Well, yes, most of what people post on the forums is speculation.

I totally agree.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
I don't know that for a fact, I'm just guessing, but I think it's an educated guess.

Well said Celeste. But if we go back to your first sentence – “most of what people post on the forums is speculation” – would that also mean that maybe some or most of these people may also be making an “educated guess” just like you? Meaning their educated guesses may also count for now?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
The DP doesn't have much power at all when it's dormant.

In my humble opinion (and this is just me,) I believe this story about the DP having no power when it’s dormant is also written by Alan Wake in his “Departure” manuscript (Check it out, it’s in the manuscript pages.) In short, the DP’s power whether dormant or not relies mainly in Alan Wake’s written words that are coming true. But this is just Me! (Sneaky Me!)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
It was barely able to sneak into the diner as Barbara to trick Alan, and then trick both the Wakes with the cabin.
Again, this is also written by Alan Wake in one of the manuscript pages (Check it out.) Alan Wake’s written words that are coming true. But this is just Me! (Sneaky, Sneaky Me!)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
After that point, all its power came from Alan

Oh yeah! Now that’s what I’m talking about. After all the chaos, “touching” people, “taking” people, and the tornado of death, the DP has no power to harm Alan without Alan writing it? All of these acts by the DP are already written. And all of this, it seems like this entire story is now written in Alan Wake’s “Departure” manuscript. So, who is powerful? It seems like Alan Wake holds the power. But this is just Me! (Triple Sneaky Me!)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
but once he used the Clicker, it was subdued and doesn't have that power anymore. It still has some, since Nightingale seems to be its new face and he's out and about,

I don’t want to jump into conclusion yet about Agent Nightingale’s status or condition at the end of the game. But what I believe (again, this is just my own humble theoretical opinion) is that Alan Wake finished his “Departure” manuscript at the end of the game when he typed the ellipsis (…) So, “theoretically speaking” Nightingale’s and Rose’s story at the end of the first game is already written by Alan Wake in the Departure manuscript. But that’s just Me! (Quadruple Sneaky Me!)

Now, it seems to me (and this is just Me) that a lot of these things are riding in Alan Wake’s written words. So, maybe this “Theory” could also pass as one of those educated guesses that everybody is doing? It wouldn’t hurt to have another “educated guess” to add to the list. Don’t you think? This is just a suggestion. After all, like you’ve said, most people are posting speculations which could also be considered by some as their educated guesses.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
At the end of The Writer, he started writing something called "Return". I, and probably everyone else, assumed it would be another novel, but it turned out to be the TV episode in AWAN.

Again, I don’t want to jump into conclusion about this one. I sometimes take these mysteries at face value and then provide speculation to it and formulate some “theories” out of it. This is how I look at it (again, this is just me.) Alan Wake was writing “Return” at the end of “The Writer” DLC. That’s all I know for now. In the AWAN game, the title of the “Night Springs” episode is also called “Return.” Are these two one and the same? I don’t know that yet. It was not stated by Alan Wake that they are. And remember, this “Night Springs” episode in the AWAN game is also the same episode that Alan Wake wrote in the past before coming to Bright Falls and then writing something called “Return” later on. Was this episode already called “Return” in the Past before Alan even wrote “Return” in the Future at the bottom of the Lake? Again, I don’t know that either. Was Alan Wake re-writing an episode called “Return” or was he writing a new manuscript (Book) called “Return” at the end of the DLC? – Nobody knows the answer to this.

All we know is that in the first game, Alan Wake wrote a manuscript for a book called “Departure.” At the end of the DLC, Alan Wake again seems to be writing a manuscript called “Return.” In the AWAN game, the episode is also called “Return.” If these two are the same, as you are suggesting, then it certainly would answer a lot of questions. First of all, “Return” is surely a good title for Alan to use in order to get out of the Dark Place. Meaning, if Alan Wake was writing the “Return” episode at the end of “The Writer” DLC, then the “Return” episode that we saw in AWAN could be Alan’s ticket out of the Dark Place. But is Alan Wake out of the Dark Place after AWAN? – Nobody seems to know.

Are you sure that the “Return” that Alan Wake was writing at the end of the DLC is the one that turned out to be the TV episode in AWAN only? What if Alan Wake is writing another manuscript (Book) called “Return” and the TV episode called “Return” in AWAN is just a part of that story inside the “Return” manuscript (Book) that Alan Wake was writing at the end of the DLC? Is there a possibility that this could also happen?

As for me, I would like to keep my options open and take the mysteries at face value. We could speculate as much as we can base on this, but I would not jump into conclusion right away. Anything could happen at this moment in the Franchise.


Cheers!
Jill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 08:37 PM   #1350
Heruss

Heruss's Avatar
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill View Post
Yeah, this sounds like one of the songs written by the Old gods which is written by Alan Wake in his Departure manuscript even before knowing and hearing this song and then it became a reality after writing it. I’ve written something in “Theory” about this song and the Old gods somewhere in another thread. I will avoid repeating myself and sounding redundant here, so I will give you a Link for it if you are interested. Here it is below:

http://community.remedygames.com/showthread.php?t=7997

Enjoy reading it Folks!
Beleive I've read that theory before and I don't agree with it, you seem to take things a little bit too literally both in the game and here on the forum with how folks write. It's a bit of a problem when reading your posts sometimes.

Wake didn't write the entire world and he also mentions the DP can use the subtext of anything created to manipulate and bend the "rules", this leaves things wide open to interpretation and its something you have consistently ignored when pushing your own theory. Wake didn't write the entire world or the sad endings of Zane and Jagger, these were both local legends before he arrived. While he hears of them during the "novel" it doesn't necessarily equate to him forging the entire world.


Quote:
Good question. But why choose somebody to use? Why not choose a face that already holds the key? Isn’t Zane a Diver and probably has been diving in the Lake several times before Jagger even died? If the Dark Presence is so powerful, why not use Zane directly as the “Face” of Darkness instead of going the indirect way through Jagger? And who holds the key to the Dark Presence’s freedom? Zane? But the DP was not freed by Zane. After Zane jumped into the Lake, the DP’s power to be free was also lost even though Jagger is still the “Face” of Darkness. Where is that power now? It appears that the DP aint’ so powerful at all.
Because then it would remain trapped. Using Zane as the face does not get it the freedom it needs, it has to have a creative mind free it. I can speculate, in the way it somehow became influenced by the local Indian tribes using stories to lock it away. Words have power. Therefore it requires someone with the power to create stories, poems etc to unleash it. If it takes over the artist or uses it as a face what does that achieve? Nothing.

Once out there, it becomes all powerful. Why? Because it orders the creators to make it so, with Jagger it tried to use her face as a way to influence Zane. There's also a manuscript page where it talks of the brief taste of freedom it felt thanks to Zane.

Going the "most direct way" is actually quite boring from a story point of view, if it just "goes the direct way" and takes over Zane to go free then it could do that for any schlub who happens to use the Lake at the time, and yes, Zane did dive regularly into Cauldron Lake.

He also wrote of great treasures hidden deep beneath the lake.

It could be that Emil and Barbara spoke and found that Zane's writings were influencing the world and Emil encouraged her to go searching for it as proof that Zane was changing the world around them.


Quote:
It is always in search of an artist for the last 30 years. After all the chaos, “touching” people, “taking” people, and tornado of death, the DP has no power to be free? All of these acts by the DP are already written. And all of this, it seems like this entire story is now written in Alan Wake’s “Departure” manuscript. Alan Wake holds the key? Alan Wake holds the power? And now Alan Wake is writing again called “Return?” Does that mean everything that is going to happen in the sequel is written again by Alan Wake in “Return?”
Season one suggests that the Dark Presence only really notices or acts when people of serious talent come across it. That causes it to awaken. It did it when Zane arrived, and again when the Old Gods first arrived. It stirred when Wake, a major NY Times Best Seller arrived and began to act. This was before he was anywhere near the Cabin or the typewriter. Before Departure was even written.

And as people have pointed out Return written by Alan Wake is American Nightmare. We know what happens there, he's not writing he's already written it. It says so in the credits, and the manuscript where he uses the episode he wrote for Night Springs a long time ago as his frame work to force himself back into the real world instead of The Dark Place. In this he has the spiders introduced and the concept of "Dark Fauna and Flora". This could be his own creation or as he says, a "symptom".

We don't know what's going to happen in the sequel because it's neither made, announced or even maybe not fully written yet by Sam Lake.



Quote:
I agree with you on this one. We don’t know exactly what happened to Agent Nightingale yet. I’ve mentioned this above in post # 1322. Was he taken or was he just touched? Is he dead or still alive but already touched by the DP? And I am not here to argue but I believe Alan Wake finished his “Departure” manuscript at the end of the game when he typed the ellipsis (…) So, “theoretically speaking” Nightingale’s and Rose’s story at the end of the first game is already written by Alan Wake in the Departure manuscript. But that’s just Me! (Sneaky Me!)
Aaaaaaactually that bit happens before the elypsis, so that's hardly theoretically speaking. The whole "Townsfolk celebrate not being eaten by Darkness" thing does help close the story on a positive note, there's also the blatant set up for the "future" in which Rose is already cuddling the lantern, she feels comfort in the light after she was touched by the Darkness. Nightingale is looking on malevolently from the shadows.

Suggesting he's either the new avatar, and the way Nightingale is actually lit in that brief moment is very similar to the way Jagger is lit throughout the game, or even something more dangerous...

A touched person with more faculties, the Presence feeding on Nightingale's hatred for Wake, his ability to use (and abuse) the FBI badge and thus manipulate local law enforcement gives the Taken intelligent, ranged footsoldiers who're being unwittingly duped into doing its bidding.


...
Heruss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 01:14 AM   #1351
Celeste

Celeste's Avatar
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill View Post
But if we go back to your first sentence – “most of what people post on the forums is speculation” – would that also mean that maybe some or most of these people may also be making an “educated guess” just like you? Meaning their educated guesses may also count for now?
Absolutely! By no means do I think my theories trump anyone else's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill View Post
In short, the DP’s power whether dormant or not relies mainly in Alan Wake’s written words that are coming true. But this is just Me! (Sneaky Me!)
Not really — that's where it's spelled out the clearest, but history seems to support it too. It needs someone to give it power through creation, and without that, it has none. Both Zane and Alan gave it power but then took it back.

(Side note: can you explain this "sneaky me" thing?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill View Post
I don’t want to jump into conclusion yet about Agent Nightingale’s status or condition at the end of the game. But what I believe (again, this is just my own humble theoretical opinion) is that Alan Wake finished his “Departure” manuscript at the end of the game when he typed the ellipsis (…) So, “theoretically speaking” Nightingale’s and Rose’s story at the end of the first game is already written by Alan Wake in the Departure manuscript.
I don't really understand what you're getting at with the Nightingale/Rose thing. Can you rephrase that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill View Post
Alan Wake was writing “Return” at the end of “The Writer” DLC. That’s all I know for now. In the AWAN game, the title of the “Night Springs” episode is also called “Return.” Are these two one and the same? ...
I guess we don't *know*, but yeah, I very much think they are the same thing. Why use that title if not? I definitely don't think the original Night Springs episode was titled "Return"; it was probably called something like "The Herald of Darkness". Do I have any evidence for that? Not really. Just a feeling. "Return" just doesn't sound pulpy enough for a show like Night Springs.

So I think Alan started writing "Return" at the end of "The Writer" with the intention of escaping the Dark Place. He didn't know yet how he was going to do that. He probably ran through a million potential plans in his head (maybe even on paper) before settling on reworking his old Night Springs script. I just can't imagine him sitting down immediately to write after what he had just been through in "The Writer" and already know he was going to use that old, old episode. So I highly doubt it was originally called "Return," and I highly doubt he would call it that and then also write a book called Return. I just don't see why he would. I agree, we don't know any of that for sure. I just don't personally see any evidence that they're not the same.

I will say, though, that it's interesting that it's titled "Return" and it's a return to his old style of writing (after Departure, which was, well, a creative departure for him).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill View Post
Meaning, if Alan Wake was writing the “Return” episode at the end of “The Writer” DLC, then the “Return” episode that we saw in AWAN could be Alan’s ticket out of the Dark Place. But is Alan Wake out of the Dark Place after AWAN? – Nobody seems to know.
Yeah, we don't know. Personally, I think he's in transition. Not totally free, but able now to impact the outside world to some degree. My main reason for thinking that is that I expect AW2 to be a sequel to AW, not AWAN. Obviously the DLC and AWAN come in between, but I expect the way AW2 is written to take all everything that happened in them into account, but not absolutely require the player to have played the DLC or AWAN. So I don't think they'd end AW with him being trapped, then set him free in an arcade title and have AW2 start with him back in the real world. I could be totally wrong, of course. =)
Celeste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 02:31 AM   #1352
Jill
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heruss View Post
Beleive I've read that theory before and I don't agree with it
That’s cool, Dude. As I’ve said before, to each his own. It’s just another “Theory.” No big deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heruss View Post
you seem to take things a little bit too literally both in the game and here on the forum with how folks write. It's a bit of a problem when reading your posts sometimes.
Problem? What problem? You are the one using words like “I argue” and the like in the first place. I actually stirred your post against arguing for the sake of avoiding closure of active, flourishing threads like this one. And yet again, here you are stirring a different tone with this post. Chill Dude! It’s just a “Theory.” There’s no need for arguments in this thread. Let’s just talk. Cool?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heruss View Post
its something you have consistently ignored when pushing your own theory.
Pushing my “Theory?” I never pushed you to follow my “Theory.” I merely showed it to you to explain myself. I did not “Push” you in any way. Read it again Dude in post # 1344. I was merely explaining my side to you. That is not “Pushing.” Remember, you are “free” to follow and believe whatever you want. It’s a “Free World” Dude!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heruss View Post
Wake didn't write the entire world
What? No way, Man! That’s impossible!

But Wake wrote a complete manuscript with a story that is exactly the same as the game that is also coming true and becoming a reality from the beginning of the game up to the end. But that’s just Me! (Sneaky Me!)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Heruss View Post
I can speculate, in the way it somehow became influenced by the local Indian tribes using stories to lock it away.
This story is also written inside Alan’s manuscript. So yeah, it’s written.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heruss View Post
There's also a manuscript page where it talks of the brief taste of freedom it felt thanks to Zane.
Yup! Also written!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heruss View Post
He also wrote of great treasures hidden deep beneath the lake.
Written!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heruss View Post
it becomes all powerful. Why? Because it orders the creators to make it so
I don’t know about this one. This statement is somewhat doubtful and could cause some anomalies. But that’s just Me. It’s actually been discussed as well in the Link that I’ve shown you above in post # 1344. Check it out if you are still interested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heruss View Post
Season one suggests that the Dark Presence only really notices or acts when people of serious talent come across it. That causes it to awaken. It did it when Zane arrived, and again when the Old Gods first arrived. It stirred when Wake, a major NY Times Best Seller arrived and began to act. This was before he was anywhere near the Cabin or the typewriter. Before Departure was even written.
Or it could also be said that all of these are already written in the “Departure” manuscript and when the power of the Lake is applied to this story, it will come true from the very beginning. Hence, we will never know which one comes first – the chicken or the egg? – does that sound familiar? Like a “Paradox” or something? Maybe it’s just Me! (Sneaky Me!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heruss View Post
And as people have pointed out Return written by Alan Wake is American Nightmare. We know what happens there

Are you suggesting that American Nightmare is the “Return,” like the sequel to “The Writer” DLC? The same “Return” that Alan Wake is writing at the end of “The Writer” DLC? If this is what you are trying to say here, then my take on it is still the same as what I’ve said to Celeste above in post # 1349 at the end. You could read it again if you are still interested.

I would also like to add that the AWAN game may not be a direct sequel to the first Alan Wake game as some people would say. Just a thought, you know. Like, is AWAN mandatory when a sequel like Alan Wake 2 comes out later on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heruss View Post
Aaaaaaactually that bit happens before the elypsis, so that's hardly theoretically speaking.
If you don’t have the actual manuscript pages for it, it is still considered a “Theory.” Hence, it is “Theoretically Speaking.” Am I right? Again, that’s just Me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heruss View Post
The whole "Townsfolk celebrate not being eaten by Darkness" thing does help close the story on a positive note, there's also the blatant set up for the "future" in which Rose is already cuddling the lantern, she feels comfort in the light after she was touched by the Darkness. Nightingale is looking on malevolently from the shadows.

Suggesting he's either the new avatar, and the way Nightingale is actually lit in that brief moment is very similar to the way Jagger is lit throughout the game, or even something more dangerous...
Again, like I’ve said before in post # 1344 above, I believe Alan Wake finished his “Departure” manuscript at the end of the game when he typed the ellipsis (…) So, “theoretically speaking” Nightingale’s and Rose’s story at the end of the first game is already written by Alan Wake in the Departure manuscript. But that’s just Me! (Sneaky Me!)

As a last note, I respect your theory and I consider all theories out there as well. Good luck to you and all the best. And by the way, there is really no need to argue here, my friend.

Cheers!
Last edited by Jill; 07-03-2012 at 02:36 AM.
Jill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 04:20 AM   #1353
Jill
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
Absolutely! By no means do I think my theories trump anyone else's.

I did not say it that way. I was saying that people who posts here are also thinking the same way you do, you know speculations. Let it be big or small thoughts, they may also be making “educated guesses” from their own understanding. And all these “educated guesses,” let it be big or small, counts too. That’s all. What I said has nothing to do with trumping anybody’s theory. Catch my drift?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
(Side note: can you explain this "sneaky me" thing?)

Oh, don’t worry about it. It’s my way of horsing around when we get off topic from the main title of the thread. It’s like I’m sneaking-in off-topic topics.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
I don't really understand what you're getting at with the Nightingale/Rose thing. Can you rephrase that?

You said in post # 1348 that Nightingale seems to be the new “Face” of the DP and he’s out and about. So I said I don’t want to jump into conclusion yet about Agent Nightingale’s status or condition at the end of the game. But what I believe (again, this is just my own humble theoretical opinion) is that Alan Wake finished his “Departure” manuscript at the end of the game when he typed the ellipsis (…) So, “theoretically speaking” Nightingale’s story at the end of the first game is already written by Alan Wake in the Departure manuscript. This is where we see Nightingale standing behind Rose at the end of the first game. In my humble theoretical opinion, this is still part of the “Departure” ending that Alan Wake wrote at the end of the game while Jagger is no longer present.

I don’t want to impose on you Celeste, but if you’ve been following this page on posts # 1322 – 1332 above, you would understand what I am talking about.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
I guess we don't *know*, but yeah, I very much think they are the same thing. Why use that title if not? I definitely don't think the original Night Springs episode was titled "Return"; it was probably called something like "The Herald of Darkness". Do I have any evidence for that? Not really. Just a feeling. "Return" just doesn't sound pulpy enough for a show like Night Springs.

So I think Alan started writing "Return" at the end of "The Writer" with the intention of escaping the Dark Place. He didn't know yet how he was going to do that. He probably ran through a million potential plans in his head (maybe even on paper) before settling on reworking his old Night Springs script. I just can't imagine him sitting down immediately to write after what he had just been through in "The Writer" and already know he was going to use that old, old episode. So I highly doubt it was originally called "Return," and I highly doubt he would call it that and then also write a book called Return. I just don't see why he would. I agree, we don't know any of that for sure. I just don't personally see any evidence that they're not the same.

I will say, though, that it's interesting that it's titled "Return" and it's a return to his old style of writing (after Departure, which was, well, a creative departure for him).
Yeah, we don't know. Personally, I think he's in transition. Not totally free, but able now to impact the outside world to some degree. My main reason for thinking that is that I expect AW2 to be a sequel to AW, not AWAN. Obviously the DLC and AWAN come in between, but I expect the way AW2 is written to take all everything that happened in them into account, but not absolutely require the player to have played the DLC or AWAN. So I don't think they'd end AW with him being trapped, then set him free in an arcade title and have AW2 start with him back in the real world. I could be totally wrong, of course. =)

All these things that you are saying here are somewhat speculations only. When we started our discussion somewhere around post # 1345 above, I was looking at the entire Franchise. That is why I responded to you with those speculations and about not jumping into conclusions about the “Return” that Alan Wake was writing at the end of the 2nd DLC. But now that you’ve mentioned this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
I expect AW2 to be a sequel to AW, not AWAN. Obviously the DLC and AWAN come in between, but I expect the way AW2 is written to take all everything that happened in them into account, but not absolutely require the player to have played the DLC or AWAN. So I don't think they'd end AW with him being trapped, then set him free in an arcade title and have AW2 start with him back in the real world. I could be totally wrong, of course. =)
Now, this changes everything. Especially when you said this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
I expect the way AW2 is written to take all everything that happened in them into account, but not absolutely require the player to have played the DLC or AWAN.
I mean, I don’t even know what to say to this. I don’t know how Remedy could pull something like this in AW2 if you want the DLC and AWAN to count and yet still be understandable without playing the DLC and AWAN. It is a possibility, but Man, that is one tough request Dudette! I dig what you are saying.

Anyway, whatever happens, happens. Right? I’m sure when AW2 comes out, it will surely deliver.


Cheers!
Jill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 02:07 PM   #1354
Celeste

Celeste's Avatar
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill View Post
What I said has nothing to do with trumping anybody’s theory. Catch my drift?
Not really. It sounds to me like you're saying everyone is making educated guesses, so theirs should count too if mine does. And that's what I agreed about. But maybe that's not what you meant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill View Post
Oh, don’t worry about it. It’s my way of horsing around when we get off topic from the main title of the thread. It’s like I’m sneaking-in off-topic topics.
Oh, OK. I didn't think anything you were saying was off-topic =)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill View Post
You said in post # 1348 that Nightingale seems to be the new “Face” of the DP and he’s out and about. So I said I don’t want to jump into conclusion yet about Agent Nightingale’s status or condition at the end of the game. But what I believe (again, this is just my own humble theoretical opinion) is that Alan Wake finished his “Departure” manuscript at the end of the game when he typed the ellipsis (…) So, “theoretically speaking” Nightingale’s story at the end of the first game is already written by Alan Wake in the Departure manuscript. This is where we see Nightingale standing behind Rose at the end of the first game. In my humble theoretical opinion, this is still part of the “Departure” ending that Alan Wake wrote at the end of the game while Jagger is no longer present.

I don’t want to impose on you Celeste, but if you’ve been following this page on posts # 1322 – 1332 above, you would understand what I am talking about.
In those earlier posts you seem to be asking whether Alan wrote the Deerfest stuff or if the DP chose Nightingale on its own. But now it seems like you're saying you believe Alan did write it. So that's why I'm confused about what you're saying.

I don't really see how it's jumping to conclusions, though, to say Nightingale is out and about. We saw that. And Alan's still writing then. So I don't think it's a huge leap to say he wrote the Deerfest stuff in Departure. I thought that was pretty well established. That's not really theoretical. Again, I don't understand what you're saying because it sounds like we agree but the way you're talking it's as if you disagree. I'm confused!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill View Post
I don’t know how Remedy could pull something like this in AW2 if you want the DLC and AWAN to count and yet still be understandable without playing the DLC and AWAN. It is a possibility, but Man, that is one tough request Dudette! I dig what you are saying.
Well, AW2 isn't going to start from the exact point AW left off anyway. Time has passed. That would probably be the case even if they'd never made the DLC or AWAN. So from the point of view of someone who didn't play the DLC or AWAN, AW ends with Alan stuck in the cabin, and AW2 (under this theory) starts with him finally figuring out how to escape. They don't have to know everything he went through in the meantime — it wasn't in the real world, so it's mostly just him dealing with his own psyche. Does it help understand his character? Of course! But it's not absolutely necessary for the overall story, I don't think. It definitely still counts, and that's not to say they won't refer back to stuff that happened in it. It's canon. But there's a reason AWAN wasn't called AW2. It's not the full sequel. They know lots of people who buy AW2 will not have played the DLC or AWAN. So I think they'll write it in such a way that takes that into account. Kind of like how the stuff in The Alan Wake Files is canon and adds a lot to the mythology and understanding of the story in AW, but isn't necessary for a player to read.
Celeste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 08:39 PM   #1355
havenoidea
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
I actually made a post a while ago about some of the name meanings in the game. It might interest you =)
your link is broken, I only see a pic of a guy with cactus balls
havenoidea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 08:45 PM   #1356
Jill
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
It sounds to me like you're saying everyone is making educated guesses, so theirs should count too if mine does. And that's what I agreed about. But maybe that's not what you meant?
That is exactly what I meant. I’m glad we’ve finally settled this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
In those earlier posts you seem to be asking whether Alan wrote the Deerfest stuff or if the DP chose Nightingale on its own.
Correct. I was just trying to get opinions from readers. You know, trying to strike a stimulating topic. At least that was the intention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
But now it seems like you're saying you believe Alan did write it. So that's why I'm confused about what you're saying.
That is one of the “Theories” that I believe in. I was already following that “Theory” before I wrote those earlier posts. I admit, the fault is on my end by not mentioning that when I wrote those posts. It is not my intention to confuse you or anyone reading them. Please pardon me for the confusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
I don't really see how it's jumping to conclusions, though, to say Nightingale is out and about
Well, why don’t we check out what you’ve said in post # 1348. I’ll post it again here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
since Nightingale seems to be its new face and he's out and about,
That’s what I’m talking about right there. Since we don’t know yet if Nightingale is indeed the new “Face” of Darkness, we should not jump into conclusion that he is. But that’s just Me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
And Alan's still writing then. So I don't think it's a huge leap to say he wrote the Deerfest stuff in Departure.
Didn’t Alan say after finding the “Clicker” that he knows how to finish the ending to “Departure?” Alice is not out yet at that time. When Jagger is eliminated, Alan started writing again, then Alice is set free and Deerfest occurred until Alan ended the game and the manuscript by writing the Ellipsis (…) Now, isn’t that theoretical enough to say that Alan wrote the ending to “Departure” that includes Alice’s story, Nightingale’s story and Deerfest at the end?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
I thought that was pretty well established. That's not really theoretical.
Oh its “theoretical” considering that even though Alan Wake is writing all of this at the end, we don’t have those manuscript pages. And based on some experience here, I am always cautious enough to say that everything here is theoretical especially if we don’t have manuscript pages to prove a point. People in this forum are keen on establishing that here, you know. I’m always being cautious when it comes to this matter. So yeah, its “theoretical” enough, for now that is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
Well, AW2 isn't going to start from the exact point AW left off anyway. Time has passed. That would probably be the case even if they'd never made the DLC or AWAN. So from the point of view of someone who didn't play the DLC or AWAN, AW ends with Alan stuck in the cabin, and AW2 (under this theory) starts with him finally figuring out how to escape. They don't have to know everything he went through in the meantime — it wasn't in the real world, so it's mostly just him dealing with his own psyche. Does it help understand his character? Of course! But it's not absolutely necessary for the overall story, I don't think. It definitely still counts, and that's not to say they won't refer back to stuff that happened in it. It's canon. But there's a reason AWAN wasn't called AW2. It's not the full sequel. They know lots of people who buy AW2 will not have played the DLC or AWAN. So I think they'll write it in such a way that takes that into account. Kind of like how the stuff in The Alan Wake Files is canon and adds a lot to the mythology and understanding of the story in AW, but isn't necessary for a player to read.
Wow! I mean, these are some fine points Dudette! I agree with you in all this but remember Celeste, AW2 is not out yet. These are all speculations and expectations. Unless you’ve found out something from the source…………….do you know something that I don’t? If you do, then you should better share it with ME! I mean, I’m at a disadvantage here………………(Just kidding! It’s a joke!)

Anyway, I have only one thing to add to this. If the DLC and AWAN are Canon as you’ve said (because they are indeed Canon) and if they will be mentioned or referred to when AW2 comes out, that means all the theories about the “Return” material that Alan is working on that I have mentioned in earlier posts still counts for now as well because these are just only “Theories” for now, right? We have to wait for the actual AW2 game before we could conclude anything. So, for now, what we have are all just theories and expectations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
So I think they'll write it in such a way that takes that into account. Kind of like how the stuff in The Alan Wake Files is canon and adds a lot to the mythology and understanding of the story in AW, but isn't necessary for a player to read.
Yup! This could be the way to go with AW2 in order to handle those that was not able to follow the DLC or AWAN. Sort of like a “Red Herring” in literature, but not exactly. Anyway, again this is just a theory. It is not for us to decide about these things. We have to be patient and wait until AW2 comes out.

Once again, whatever happens, happens. Right? I’m optimistic that when AW2 comes out, it will surely deliver.


Cheers!
Jill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 08:50 PM   #1357
Jill
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by havenoidea View Post
your link is broken, I only see a pic of a guy with cactus balls
Hilarious Dude! You’ve freakin’ made my day!
Jill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 11:22 PM   #1358
Celeste

Celeste's Avatar
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by havenoidea View Post
your link is broken, I only see a pic of a guy with cactus balls
Hahaha wow. BB code fail. OK, try this.
Celeste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 11:48 PM   #1359
Celeste

Celeste's Avatar
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill View Post
That’s what I’m talking about right there. Since we don’t know yet if Nightingale is indeed the new “Face” of Darkness, we should not jump into conclusion that he is.
Well, that's why I said it *seems* he's the new FoD. =)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill View Post
Oh its “theoretical” considering that even though Alan Wake is writing all of this at the end, we don’t have those manuscript pages. And based on some experience here, I am always cautious enough to say that everything here is theoretical especially if we don’t have manuscript pages to prove a point.
Well, lots of stuff happens in the game that we don't have manuscript pages for. We never have Alan's full manuscript. So I understand what you're saying, but for me, the way the scene is edited gives the impression that Alan did write the Deerfest stuff as the end of Departure, to save Alice in a way that maintains balance. I do understand being cautious about what you say is fact (vs. theory). And I'm not saying it's proven fact that Alan wrote the Deerfest stuff, but it *seems* likely to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill View Post
Wow! I mean, these are some fine points Dudette! I agree with you in all this but remember Celeste, AW2 is not out yet. These are all speculations and expectations. Unless you’ve found out something from the source…………….do you know something that I don’t? If you do, then you should better share it with ME! I mean, I’m at a disadvantage here……
Haha, I wish! Nah, I have no idea really. Again, I'm just guessing, based on my experience with other serial stories. Remedy could do something totally different from that, of course! I was just explaining my thought process. By no means do I think I actually know where they're taking the story in AW2. Not a clue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill View Post
all the theories about the “Return” material that Alan is working on that I have mentioned in earlier posts still counts for now as well because these are just only “Theories” for now, right? We have to wait for the actual AW2 game before we could conclude anything. So, for now, what we have are all just theories and expectations.
Yeah! We don't know anything for sure until Remedy wants us to know. I think all theories count until proven otherwise by the game (or Mikki). But these theories are based on stuff from the games (etc.), so I think it's okay for people to have things they feel pretty confident about, even if they haven't been proven. For example, I am pretty confident about Alan writing Deerfest, so I don't exactly consider it a theory even though it's not proven fact. I guess this is getting into semantics kind of stuff a bit now =) But anyway, yes, we only have our theories to go on, but that's what makes it fun!
Celeste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2012, 05:01 AM   #1360
Jill
Re: Alan Wake Ending Theories (Spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
Well, that's why I said it *seems* he's the new FoD. =)
Whew! I’m glad we have settled this and now we are on the same page with this. I will tell you the reason why I’ve been saying not to jump into conclusion about Nightingale as the new “Face” of Darkness. But before that, I’ll show you a couple more of your posts below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
for me, the way the scene is edited gives the impression that Alan did write the Deerfest stuff as the end of Departure,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
I am pretty confident about Alan writing Deerfest,
I also believe in these statements (theoretically – you know what I mean now, right?) This is exactly what I’ve been trying to tell you and I’m glad that we are on the same page with this as well. Now, remember what I’ve said about Nightingale and the new “Face” of Darkness in posts # 1322 – 1330?

If Alan Wake wrote Deerfest and “assuming” Nightingale is the new “Face” of Darkness, why would Alan Wake write Nightingale as the “New Face” of Darkness? And if “assuming” that Nightingale is the “New Face” of Darkness and Alan Wake wrote it at the end, then Nightingale is not chosen by the DP but instead written by Alan Wake. Now why would Alan Wake do that?

Do you see the implications now? Again, I don’t want to impose anything on you but if you could please go back and read posts # 1322 – 1330 above with all of these things in mind, I hope you would understand what I’m talking about now without the confusion.

This is the reason why I’ve been saying not to jump into conclusion about the status or condition of Agent Nightingale as the new “Face’ of Darkness at the end of the first game. Once again Celeste, this is just a “Theory.” Anyway, regardless of what Agent Nightingale’s role would be when AW2 comes out, I’m confident that it would be interesting as well just like the first game.

Whatever happens happens. Right?


Cheers!
Jill is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Say I want multiplayer for Alan Wake. esfumato Alan Wake 150 09-07-2012 06:46 PM
Alan Wake FAQ sidetwo Alan Wake 0 02-20-2007 10:05 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:32 PM.


Copyright ©1995 - 2014, Remedy Entertainment, Ltd. All Rights Reserved.
Ideas and messages posted here become property of Remedy Entertainment, Ltd.

Community powered by vBulletin®. Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises, Ltd.