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  • #16
    Re: Rated T for...

    i don't really care about the violence.. i mean its only a teen game. its the suggestive themes i don't like and prefer to stay away from. thanks for all your answers! any more comments would be great!

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    • #17
      Re: Rated T for...

      Yeah, that was one of the things that I liked about AW1: no "suggestive themes", and no swearing. They even replaced "Jesus Christ" with "Judas Priest!" (when the radio-guy gets shot at). I was a little disappointed when Alan started to swear a bit...
      Please check out my artwork =D
      http://vonstreff.deviantart.com/

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      • #18
        Re: Rated T for...

        Originally posted by VonStreff View Post
        Yeah, that was one of the things that I liked about AW1: no "suggestive themes", and no swearing. They even replaced "Jesus Christ" with "Judas Priest!" (when the radio-guy gets shot at). I was a little disappointed when Alan started to swear a bit...
        Er, you might want to check again, we have quite a bit of swearing in the original Alan Wake. (The "Judas Priest" bit tells you more about Pat Maine's personality than anything else, really.)
        Story Team Manager at Remedy. Like the occasional stupid remark? Follow me on Twitter: @MikkiRMD

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        • #19
          Re: Rated T for...

          "You can use my...." was pretty XXX rated though.
          "Following a typical nightmare pattern, I was late, desperately trying to reach my destination – a lighthouse – for some urgent reason I couldn’t remember."

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          • #20
            Re: Rated T for...

            The differences in the rating systems also can be applied to the differences in what is "alright" between the different countries. America is much more lenient of violent scenes more so than Europe, but Europe in turn is much more lenient with violent scenes than Japan. Another example is that nudity in American films and games make the ratings for the title much more stingy, but it's much more lenient in Europe than it is in America, and even more so in Japan.

            Different countries just have different 'moral' standings based on factors such as culture, socially, upraising, and the likes.
            Sometimes the more things change, the more they stay the same.

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            • #21
              Re: Rated T for...

              Originally posted by MikkiRMD View Post
              Er, you might want to check again, we have quite a bit of swearing in the original Alan Wake. (The "Judas Priest" bit tells you more about Pat Maine's personality than anything else, really.)
              Really? I didn't notice. Other games have a ridiculous amount, so maybe I just didn't notice the AW swearing because it wasn't a major part of the dialogue. Anyway, you guys should try to minimize it. It makes it more emphatic when they do swear, because it's so rare. Just my thoughts...
              Please check out my artwork =D
              http://vonstreff.deviantart.com/

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              • #22
                Re: Rated T for...

                The lady in the third chapter of each act says some pretty naughty things to Alan before he turns the power back on -- talks about wanting him inside her and whatnot -- and then you've got Mr. Scratch being delightfully diabolical.

                I read in another thread that they couldn't put the Mr. Scratch videos in the special features in HD because it would have affected the rating. This in spite of the fact that a lot of the nasty things he does happens off-camera. It's brutal in how suggestive it is, but there's precious little gore on-screen. I've seen more outright violent stuff on prime time television here in the states, but I think it was the overseas market where it really would have pushed the rating over the top.

                As for the swearing: I'm not sure how much more minimal it could get. The characters talk like real people, so occasionally they swear. To be honest, I think Mr. Scratch swears less than the rest of the cast in this series, and he's batshit crazy!
                "I'm not afraid to be the center of attention!"

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                • #23
                  Re: Rated T for...

                  Originally posted by Doctor Scratch View Post
                  As for the swearing: I'm not sure how much more minimal it could get. The characters talk like real people, so occasionally they swear.
                  One of the women says, "You should be in me"...

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                  • #24
                    Re: Rated T for...

                    Originally posted by Nelsh View Post
                    Rated T for Titties!

                    There's a lot of sex talk. xD
                    ^This...

                    Originally posted by ToastyWaffles View Post
                    one darkness-touched-lady tries to seduce Wake
                    ^And this...

                    Originally posted by Nelsh View Post
                    "You can use my...." was pretty XXX rated though.
                    ^And this...

                    Originally posted by Doctor Scratch View Post
                    The lady in the third chapter of each act says some pretty naughty things to Alan before he turns the power back on -- talks about wanting him inside her and whatnot
                    ^And this...

                    Originally posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
                    One of the women says, "You should be in me"...
                    ^And this...

                    I guess that's about it, for now.

                    With the ESRB, they rated the AWAN game as TEEN and with content descriptors as:

                    Blood,
                    Violence,
                    Language,
                    Suggestive Themes


                    I think everybody knows what "Blood" and "Violence" means. According to ESRB, "Language" is something about mild or moderate profanity in the game. And "Suggestive Themes" are mild provocative references or materials. I think everybody here knows what provocative is. If you don't, then go look it up.

                    I guess there is nothing we could do about it really. It's already in the game...right?

                    Originally posted by glitchhawk View Post
                    i don't really care about the violence.. i mean its only a teen game. its the suggestive themes i don't like and prefer to stay away from. thanks for all your answers! any more comments would be great!
                    ^I'm glad the OP knows the difference between violence and suggestive themes. But like I said, it's already in there and there ain't nothin' we can do about it. We did not put it there. Just like EA used to say - "It's in the Game!"

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                    • #25
                      Re: Rated T for...

                      Here in North America we, for some unknown reason, find sex to be naughty and violence to be okay. A brief shot of side-boob will net an "M" rating, but graphic and gory decapitations? Just fine for the teenies.
                      robot vacuums compare

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                      • #26
                        Re: Rated T for...

                        Originally posted by MikkiRMD View Post
                        Er, you might want to check again, we have quite a bit of swearing in the original Alan Wake. (The "Judas Priest" bit tells you more about Pat Maine's personality than anything else, really.)
                        Pat Maine is honestly my favorite character in games in a long time. Just love the dude's attitude...
                        QB looks NICE

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                        • #27
                          Re: Rated T for...

                          Originally posted by rayphil View Post
                          Here in North America we, for some unknown reason, find sex to be naughty and violence to be okay. A brief shot of side-boob will net an "M" rating, but graphic and gory decapitations? Just fine for the teenies.
                          Graphic and gory decapitations are fine for the teenies?...

                          Sex is naughty and violence is okay in North America?...

                          This may be true for some, but in general, this could just be a subjective observation. In the U.S. and Canada, both sex and violence are still considered a sore and delicate subject when it comes to any form of entertainment. Both are still equally being frowned upon, especially with all the shootings happening everywhere nowadays. Some even blames Marilyn Manson which has nothing to do with the gaming industry at all. Hence, both sex and violence are still equally frowned upon here in North America.

                          When it comes to game ratings however, all I know is that the ESRB is the main classification body in North America that determines which ratings belong to a certain software according to their contents. The ESRB is neither a regulating body, nor a law enforcing body that categorizes the ratings of these software. It merely serves as a guide intended to aid consumers in determining a game's content and suitability. But, because most retail stores enforces the ESRB ratings by not carrying any games which are unrated, as well as major console manufacturers (Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo) not licensing games for their systems unless they carry ESRB ratings, it has been considered a "de facto" standard for classification of software and games in North America.

                          Now, going back to Alan Wake. The first AW game was rated T for TEEN with content descriptors as:

                          Blood
                          Language
                          Violence
                          Use of Alcohol
                          Use of Tobacco

                          If you take a closer look, it seems like these descriptors are all self explanatory. But if you feel the need to elaborate on them and what they truly mean, you could go look it up on the ESRB Site.

                          The above rating is for the first AW game only. The "American Nightmare" game, which is also a "stand-alone" game, is also rated separately by the ESRB. And according to the ESRB, the "American Nightmare" game is rated T for TEEN with content descriptors as:

                          Blood,
                          Violence,
                          Language,
                          Suggestive Themes

                          As you can see, both of these games, the first "Alan Wake" game and later the "American Nightmare" game, both are rated T for TEEN, but they both have different content descriptors. The TEEN rating indicates the age range in which the game is suited for, and the "content descriptors" indicates what is inside of the game or the contents of the game. See the difference?

                          In "American Nightmare," one content descriptor is added that was not there in the first AW game. It is the "Suggestive Themes." According to ESRB, "Suggestive Themes" are mild provocative references or materials. I think everybody here knows what provocative is. If you don't, then go look it up again. The ESRB rating does not indicate in the game which are the "Suggestive Themes," but the point of the matter is that they indicated it to be there which means that it is in there and is part of the contents of the game. Like most of you above, you observed it to be there, too. Such as:

                          Originally posted by Nelsh View Post
                          Rated T for Titties!

                          There's a lot of sex talk. xD
                          ^This...

                          Originally posted by ToastyWaffles View Post
                          one darkness-touched-lady tries to seduce Wake
                          ^And this...

                          Originally posted by Nelsh View Post
                          "You can use my...." was pretty XXX rated though.
                          ^And this...

                          Originally posted by Doctor Scratch View Post
                          The lady in the third chapter of each act says some pretty naughty things to Alan before he turns the power back on -- talks about wanting him inside her and whatnot
                          ^And this...

                          Originally posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
                          One of the women says, "You should be in me"...
                          ^And this...

                          So, the ESRB rating said it's there. Most of you above observed it's there. This goes to show that it is really there. Even though the ESRB rating doesn't say where exactly these "Suggestive Themes" are in the game, most of you pointed it out above. So, this may only mean that it is really there and there is nothing we could do about it really. It's already in the game...right?

                          Even the OP says it all:

                          Originally posted by glitchawk View Post
                          i don't really care about the violence.. i mean its only a teen game. its the suggestive themes i don't like and prefer to stay away from. thanks for all your answers! any more comments would be great!
                          ^See, even the OP truly knows the difference between violence and suggestive themes. But like I said before, it's already part of the game and there ain't nothin' we can do about it. We did not put it there. It's already there. Just like EA used to say - "It's in the Game!"

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                          • #28
                            Re: Rated T for...

                            Originally posted by Dusk Golem View Post
                            The differences in the rating systems also can be applied to the differences in what is "alright" between the different countries. America is much more lenient of violent scenes more so than Europe, but Europe in turn is much more lenient with violent scenes than Japan. Another example is that nudity in American films and games make the ratings for the title much more stingy, but it's much more lenient in Europe than it is in America, and even more so in Japan.

                            Different countries just have different 'moral' standings based on factors such as culture, socially, upraising, and the likes.
                            Interesting observation. This is spot on mate. You said Japan is more lenient with nudity than with violence in video games. No wonder they have more mature, sex oriented video games in Japan than there are first person shooters, or any other shooter for that matter. Games like Eroge and Bishojo that are so popular and in abundance in Japan. I agree to all of this, except for a couple of things.

                            I agree that in North America, the rating system is somewhat lenient with violent scenes. And you are correct, this could be influenced by a lot of factors such as culture, social acceptance, upraising, and the likes. If you ask me, it's more of for effects, too. In mainstream media, it happens all the time, and it goes way, way back with too much exaggeration in movies and TV. Exploding cars, gory horror movies, etc. I mean cars don't explode. They catch fire but they don't explode in a fiery ball like you see in movies or in games nowadays. They just don't. It's more of for effects, really. It gives the impression that the enemy, or anybody, has been totally destroyed, kaput, so to speak. The same when you see blood and gore in media, it gives the impression that this person is badly injured or again, kaput! I think it's more of for effects, it gives the impression of reality or the consequences of reality. In the entertainment world, they call it - "suspension of disbelief." When you see somebody shooting someone in mainstream media, they try to convey that the bad guys are truly dead by exaggerating violence, such as exploding cars, or exploding head, decapitated head and dismemberment of limbs and what not. It's really for effects more than anything else. It's not because violence is "alright," it's because it conveys that the bad guys are truly eliminated, or just used for some effects. That's why they call it "entertainment," because that's what it is, it's for entertainment.

                            I remember one game I played a long, long time ago. It's a hack and slash game, and there is this option of turning blood and gore ON and OFF. A tried turning it off at first, and every time I hit an enemy or downed an enemy, I can't figure out if I have finished them off or not. I mean, it's part of the game, to hit them. But it seems like what I'm doing to them has no effect to me because I don't see the consequences or the effects of my actions. Hence, sometimes a little bit of violence is needed in the entertainment world to give that effect of reality, or shall I say the exaggeration of reality. That's why they call it "suspension of disbelief" in the entertainment world, so that you will try to suspend the feeling of unreality, trick your mind into thinking of reality, and sometimes exaggerated reality, just for the sake of entertainment.

                            Just imagine what would great games be like, for instance Dead Space, without violence or gore, right? I mean, part of the gameplay in Dead Space is to sever the limbs or tentacles of Necromorphs to aid in terminating them quickly. Sometimes decapitations are ideal, but not necessary to finish them off. How would the game developers pull that off and make a great game if they are limited to what they can show in that aspect, right? They have to add some form of goriness and violence to create that perfect feel, right?

                            Now, regardless of culture though, there are still people and families who object to violence here in North America. It doesn't mean that we carry guns legally and sometimes hunt for food with legal guns, we are just plain violent people based on that culture alone. We are not. Even when it's okay to see violence in mainstream media. Sometimes, even some people here cringe when you say the word "kill" or "gun" even though you are just telling a story, especially when they are with their young ones or their children. Sometimes they look at you like you have just said something really bad or somethin', like it's taboo. It's weird, you know. It's like we are living in a different time. It wasn't like this before, you know. Maybe there is a new breed of North Americans in some places. A very delicate time, indeed.

                            This is what I mean when I mentioned previously in another post above, that in some parts of North America, both violence and nudity are still being frowned upon equally. I guess it all comes down to where you are, how they are presented, and in what form of medium. Even though these things are regulated in a way based on their ratings through their respected rating's board, it's still difficult to say what the entire population's opinion is in general. It could indicate in the ratings that a certain violent theme is acceptable in a game but then there may be some in the general population that may not agree to this. Therefore, it doesn't mean that a game that has been rated with violence for a certain age group is agreeable and appropriate with everybody's opinion in the general population. Some may disagree. Thus, the rating of a game, or any entertainment medium is not the general consensus of the entire population of North Americans. Some may disagree on it as well. It doesn't mean that when it is already rated, everybody will just agree with it, everything is just alright. It's not. Some members of the population will also disagree with it. Hence, it doesn't apply to the entire North American population. Especially with all the unnecessary violent events happening everywhere around us nowadays, some members of the population think violence and nudity should be equally regulated in mainstream media. Just an opinion folks, just my two cents, so to speak. It's not my idea, it's just an opinion based on observation.

                            You see, sometimes people are quick to judge in general. It doesn't mean that most violent entertainment mediums that you see out there reflects the general opinion of the entire North Americans. But it's not. The mentality that what you see out there, that's what North Americans are in general. It's not. It doesn't mean that all games that are violent out there that have been rated by ESRB, are a reflection of what is agreeable for the entire North Americans. It's not. Some may disagree. Not all violence in games are equal to what everybody thinks is violent for their well being or the well being of others. That's why the ESRB serves only as a guide, but not a general consensus of the entire population of North America. Well, in Canada, the ESRB ratings are now part of the law, hence, it's a regulation. But in the U.S., it's not, it still serves as a guide. What you see out there is not alright for everyone, all the time. Sometimes for some, it's just not alright at all. Again, it's not my idea, just an opinion based on observation.

                            Now, with nudity however, it's another matter. Nudity in video games is mostly a moral stand point in North America, and not necessarily a cultural factor. You see, TV shows and movies are littered with nudity. And they are rated accordingly, but nobody gives a damn. Even regular evening TV series nowadays are slowly bringing some sort of skin nudity into their mainstream airtime, a side boob here, a side butt there. They even have these in music videos nowadays. Hey, anybody here familiar with the "Jerry Springer Show" and other similar shows like this? These shows are littered with violence, sexual topics and languages. And they even air these shows on prime time in the morning until the afternoon, back to back with each other. These are the times where the kids and the young ones could have easily gain access to these shows. They air it during daytime programming. The "Prime Time" for kids and young ones to watch TV, especially during summer days, and holidays. But these things don't get as many objections from any political bodies or organizations. They are airing these shows for decades now. But when you do this in video games, all hell breaks loose.

                            If this happens in VIDEOGAMES, all hell breaks loose!

                            Do you know why? Because it is a moral dilemma. Majority of the people that play video games are the young ones, the kids, and the adolescents. Sure, a lot of adults play video games, but majority of the population are young ones. Hence, political belief dictates that politicians should protect their young ones and educate them about the morals of what is appropriate for everybody. Hence, nudity in video games is regulated not because it is the culture of North Americans, but because it is a moral obligation and the ethical way to feed the young society.

                            That is why in the entertainment world, TV shows and movies are different worlds than in video games. That's because TV shows and movies could be easily controlled and regulated by adults and parents. Some Families in North America sometimes opt not to watch movies or TV shows, especially for their young ones. But in video games, the mainstream population are the kids and the young ones. Kids would sometimes learn about a video game through friends in school or in the neighborhood and eventually these kids would play video games with their friends. Thus, TV and movies are a different league than video games. Hence, it is not a cultural factor that influence their acceptability of nudity in these different forms of media because in some forms, TV and movies, it's not a big deal, but in video games, it is, that's because it's their moral obligation to their society, especially their younger population, to educate them properly and instill into them the morals of what is appropriate for everybody.

                            Now, since everybody is talking about ratings and the ratings board, here in North America we have the ESRB that regulates the ratings of our games. I'm sure everybody here in this forum knows that there are different rating categories and content descriptors used by the ESRB to classify our games. From EC - Early Childhood, to AO - Adults Only, and up to RP - Ratings Pending games. These different categories are established based on age group and their contents. These contents are then classified based on degree of Violence, Sexual Content, Gambling, Language, and Use of Alcohol, Drugs, and Tobacco. Now, as gamers and consumers of these products, we don't put these contents in our games. Neither does the ESRB. The game makers are the ones putting contents in our games. The ESRB then classifies these different contents accordingly based on what is appropriate for everybody. Hence, the ESRB is not responsible for what is inside our games, the ESRB's job is to label these contents accordingly to what they see is inside of our games. The game makers are really the ones responsible for putting contents in our games. The ESRB just labels them accordingly and classifies them according to what is appropriate for everybody. If you take a look at these contents, (Violence, Sexual Contents, Language, etc.,) sometimes you wonder if all of these are really necessary to make a good, or great game.

                            Well, if you probably ask most of the game makers out there, they would probably say that sometimes they are necessary and sometimes they are not. Remember what I said about the Dead Space game above? Game makers would probably claim that sometimes they would need them, and sometimes not. For example, if you are making a game about World War I or II, it would probably be impossible to not show violence since war is all about shooting, or killing, and dead people all around. I mean, that is indeed difficult to convey if your game involves killing and dead people. There must be some form of violence in that story, right? Hence, the game makers would probably say, yes, it would be a necessity to portray and show a certain degree of violence with these games.

                            But how about Sexual Content, or Gambling, or Strong Language, or Use of Alcohol, Drugs, and Tobacco? Are they really necessary in games to make good or great games? If you take a look at it superficially or from the surface, they may not be necessary to make a great game, right? But some game makers would probably say they are necessary, too. They would probably say for artistic reasons it is sometimes necessary, like the story of the game calls for it, these contents would add realistic situations, depicts life in reality and the like, maybe add more gameplay to the game, etc., blah, blah, blah. It could be so many different reasons just to add these contents to a game. The bottom line is, every game maker tries to make great games so that their games would become a successful endeavor. It's all about making successful games.

                            Just like in the entertainment business. Have you heard of the saying - "Sex Sells." This is partly true. Although it is not the actual selling point of a product, because people would still buy something when they know it is good regardless of wether it includes something sexual or not. But sometimes, they incorporate sexuality to make a product even more attractive, so to speak. They say it could add a little bit of spice to an already good product. And sometimes it could be subtle, or sometimes it could be vulgar. What matters is that sometimes it works. Remember Tomb Raider? It's really popular with the boys, even though the protagonist is a girl. I wonder why? It's a bit subtle that I can't really figure out if the attraction is wether with Lara's pair of big guns or with Lara's full bouncy hair? Who knows, right? I remember when they rolled out the new and latest real life model for Tomb Raider in a press conference, the press people are all guys! The real life model of Lara Croft strutting her acrobatic stuff in a circle of male columnist, writers and photographers, what a sight! Wait, what's that wet stuff on the floor, I think it's drool! Are you sure?..............Okay, I'm more confused though with some of the more vulgar characters of some RPG's and Japanese RPG's? I mean, what's with the half naked women elves, women mages and sometimes female humans and their evil female antagonists? Sometimes in these RPG's, warriors are upgraded with heavier and thicker armor, while women elves and mages are upgraded with skimpier and thinner outfits. I mean, is that suppose to be an upgrade? What's up with that? The less the clothing the better it becomes? I'm confused! Now, I'm not saying this is always the case in games. But sometimes if it's there, it's there. And we can't do anything about it anymore. It's already there. And sometimes this trick works. Confusing at times, but it works.

                            Same goes with a place called Las Vegas, one of the entertainment capitals of the world. Do you know why they call it "sin city?"............I'm sure it's not because of the enormous amounts of unplanned weddings there, those are legit. It's the gambling and the sex. Do you see the connection? I mean who wouldn't, right? It's the oldest profession in the books! It's the money and the sex that is connected with each other in that city. Follow the money trail, and there you will find sex tagging along. So, maybe sex do sell indeed, huh?

                            And so does the entertainment world tries to embrace this concept as well. Sex and Money equals Profit (sex + money = ca$hinggggg!!!) It happens in movies, it happens in TV shows, and it happens in video games. I'm not saying it always happens in video games. But when it does, it's there. You know, put a couple of hot chicks in there, make them look like this, make them wear this, and make them do this, viola! Is that a suggestion or what? Maybe that's why the ESRB called it "Suggestive Themes," no? If it's there, it's there. And we can't do nothin' about it anymore. It's already there. We did not put it there, it's already there.

                            Take a look at this thread, all of us here are actually talking about this on this very thread. Go ahead and review all the posts above. We did not start this thread. Somebody did. Everybody just tagged along and expressed what they think about the subject matter at hand, including us.

                            So, in conclusion, if all of these content things, Violence, Sexual Content, Language, etc. are not in video games, or in any medium of entertainment for that matter, we wouldn't worry about anything, right? We wouldn't be talking about who is lenient and who is not, it's in their culture and it's not in theirs, it's alright here and it is not there. All of this would not matter at all, right? But unfortunately, that is not the case. In reality, we will always worry and talk about these things because in reality, people put them there. These things are already there. And they will always be there. Because they are always there, then we will always talk about them, worry about them, and then we will always regulate them, too. But once it's there, it will always be there. And we can't do nothin' about it anymore. It's already there. We did not put it there, it's already there. Like EA used to say, "It's in the Game!"

                            Until next time, keep it frosty my peeps!

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