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The Poem

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  • #31
    Re: The Poem

    Originally posted by Master_Moridin View Post
    First, if all Zane is is effectively his mind, if he has become completely immersed in the Dark Place, that means he CAN take on the embodiment of light. If the Dark Place is a reflection of a person's mind, then what is around them would change, but when a person looked at them, they wouldn't change, they'd have to have become part of the reflection, so that they would be changed to fit the mind of the person being reflected.

    Second, we weren't saying that the Dark Place was a reflection of Bright Falls, sure I suggested the theory, but you can see I quickly abandoned it.

    And third, we weren't denying that what you see in the DLC was Wake's imagination, in fact that is exactly what we were saying. The Dark Place is reflection of a person's mind, so of course everything was just Wake's imagination. In fact, the idea I always try to get across, is that the Dark Place isn't physical at all, it is composed of thought and metaphor. You are right in saying we never actually left the cabin, in fact you could say the cabin doesn't exist in a physical sense. Everything you see or do is just a symbol for some mental process that Wake is undergoing. Another way to put it is that when you're playing the DLCs, your not actually performing any actual physical actions. You're just thinking, which is manifest symbolically as physical action.
    You keep saying "we", who is this "we"? Do you refer to yourself in the third person?

    And, as far as the Dark Place, I agree mostly, but I disagree on that last part.
    The Cabin, I think is physical. How else would Alice been trapped there and could not be found anywhere else?

    Also, what we see in the DLC is not the Dark Place at all. It is just Alans imagination.
    The real Dark Place is not a reflection of imagination of anybody. It is a real physical place, where the gifted can create things with their art.
    Well, this is just my view of it. Could be that I am wrong.

    I do not think we have seen the real Dark Place yet at all. We've just seen Alan's imaginations landscapes, and then we awake in the Cabin.

    Now this begs the question: is the Cabin the whole of the Dark Place, or will the Return (if Remedy makes the sequel) feature Alans escape from the Dark Place?
    Last edited by Hukka55; 11-11-2010, 10:19 AM.

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    • #32
      Re: The Poem

      Originally posted by Danny_HR View Post
      You've all tried to explain something that is not ment to be explained i think. The dark presence and the dark place just are. They can't be explained.
      And to this I say what I say to everyone who tells me that there are things that cannot be explained: bollocks.

      Everything can be explained. The question is, how to know when we got it right? Time will tell, I'm sure.

      Originally posted by Danny_HR View Post
      He is still there, in the dark place, just this time he is sane, knows where he is and is going to write himself back to the "real world". Outside of the cabin there is nothing, endless darkness. This is how i got it.
      This is also how I think it could be. That would be the most horrible configuration for the Dark Place, if you did not know how to escape.
      Alan, of course, now knows how.

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      • #33
        Re: The Poem

        Originally posted by Hukka55 View Post
        You keep saying "we", who is this "we"? Do you refer to yourself in the third person?



        ...



        Also, what we see in the DLC is not the Dark Place at all. It is just Alans imagination.
        I was in general refering to everyone on this thread that thought the refelction idea held merit, course now i see that i expanded on it a little more and should probably have used i.

        And in the DLC Zane clearly says you are in the Dark Place.
        I like to bring a little irony to a firefight-Resistance member from Half-Life 2

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        • #34
          Re: The Poem

          I think the Dark Place is a physical place, but is ruled by imagination and consciousness. It lies within the lake, but is a separate reality. The lake holds the power to make the imaginings and creations from inside the Dark Place manifest into our reality.

          When artists create close to the lake, their consciousnesses shift into the other reality of the Dark Place. When you're close enough to it and of the right mindset (creative), your mind can "tune in" and phase into that reality in such a way that you access the power of the Dark Place and the lake, or maybe more accurately, it can access your creativity and make it real (feeding on the artists' imagination). Being close isn't enough if you aren't creative (Hartman is right on the edge of the lake and it doesn't do him any good). Being creative isn't enough if you aren't close (why Bird Leg Cabin and Cauldron Lake Lodge are both right on the lake).

          Being INSIDE the Dark Place is ideal from a creative standpoint — why Barbara trapped Alan there to force him to write Departure. But because there's no reality to ground you, it's easy to lose yourself, lose control of your own art. This is what's happened to Alan and now that he knows that, he's apparently regained control and I believe he will now be able to focus his creativity, using the Dark Place to his advantage instead of letting it rule him.
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          • #35
            Re: The Poem

            Id love to see Alan learn to control the Dark Place like Zane. Just imagine him running through whatever crazy scenario he comes up with, using his writing to craft the needed path, but also his own mind to deal with rogue elements. I think a proper romp throught the Dark Place is called for, one where Alan isnt trying to kill himself.
            I like to bring a little irony to a firefight-Resistance member from Half-Life 2

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            • #36
              Re: The Poem

              He started learning that at the end of the main game: "I followed the idea of a path. I had written myself across the ocean that blocked my way, and with that, there was a bridge to the island beyond. The idea of the cabin flickered in the underwater darkness. I willed the cabin to be real. And it was." But until The Writer, when Zane demonstrated his own ability to control reality, he didn't really understand the extent of this power.
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              • #37
                Re: The Poem

                Yeah, but he used words, concrete symbols that represented certain aspects of reality, to do that. He didnt use his own pure, raw will and imagination.
                I like to bring a little irony to a firefight-Resistance member from Half-Life 2

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                • #38
                  Re: The Poem

                  That's what I mean. It's the same basic concept — both based on his own imagination, since he had written the words— but he didn't understand then that he could do more. The words are kind of his training wheels.
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                  • #39
                    Re: The Poem

                    Ah, okay, now i see what you were saying. I've been wondering something, did Alan ever leave the Dark Place, because in the cutscene where he does, when Zane comes into the room, it seems as if the darkness outside just evaporates, intead of the cabin rising out of the Dark Place. And then, when Alan is outside of it, it just evaporates instead of sinking like it did when Barbara first gets her hands on Alan
                    I like to bring a little irony to a firefight-Resistance member from Half-Life 2

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                    • #40
                      Re: The Poem

                      I've actually been wondering that a lot too, but hadn't noticed the difference in the cabin rising/sinking. I kind of think he didn't, and instead created a corporeal version of himself to run around in the real world (as he said, he wrote himself into the story as the protagonist) starting with his "escape" which was actually just the entrance of himself as a character. When he dove back into the water at the end, the protagonist version merged back with the original Alan, who had been in the cabin all along, going crazy.
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                      • #41
                        Re: The Poem

                        maybe, but that still means the stand-in would have had to have been who we see leave the cabin, which means the cabin would still have had to rise out of the water. Im kinda thinking that maybe somehow alan actually recreated the entire world, or at least Bright Falls, and let the story lead him as he wrote. though now that i think about it, Remedy kinda accidentally killed this theory. For the life of me i cant remember which thread it was, but they inadvertently said that Alan was in our world, cause Zane was reaching from the Dark Place to leave the manuscript pages here. Though i still wonder about that darn cutscene
                        I like to bring a little irony to a firefight-Resistance member from Half-Life 2

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                        • #42
                          Re: The Poem

                          I don't think he did leave the cabin.. I think he started, as a character, in the real world having crashed the car. He only "remembered" escaping, but that was a memory, a flashback — it was never part of the actual narrative. As a character, that was part of his backstory, but it didn't actually happen in our reality.
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                          • #43
                            Re: The Poem

                            hmm. that makes absolute sense. the only thing nagging at me is the particular way that cutscene was show. the light dispels the darkness, allowing Alan to escape the cabin, which is somehow already outside of the Dark Place, despite the fact we saw it actually sink. To me that seems like a hint at something bigger than that being a constructed memory. Like a hint at perhaps the contradictory nature of the ending cutscene that shows everyone happy and the Files, which shows the place obviously not in a happy mood. Course, how long was it between the events of the game and Clay's arrival?
                            I like to bring a little irony to a firefight-Resistance member from Half-Life 2

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                            • #44
                              Re: The Poem

                              Course, how long was it between the events of the game and Clay's arrival?
                              It seems it was either a few days, after or before Alan's arrival...
                              -------------------------------------------------------------------------

                              This relates to something I had written in another thread.

                              What if, The Alan that is fighting the darkness with Zane, is actually just a part of Alan himself? What if the "real" Alan is still plunging into the depths of the lake (Ocean) trying to reach Alice, and like "The Writer", one part has given up, but another part fights on?

                              Perhaps the second Manuscript, "Return" is the return of the "enlightened" part of Alan, even though he wrote Alice back, he's still in the lake, and the other part that will write him out, is in the dark place. (?)

                              Father Thor...bless this war.

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                              • #45
                                Re: The Poem

                                Originally posted by Master_Moridin View Post
                                Course, how long was it between the events of the game and Clay's arrival?
                                I can't remember exactly when he arrived, but it was some months to a year later. I think during the ending cutscene, people were just focusing on Deer Fest and were in complete denial about what else had happened (and some actually didn't know about it). The deaths weren't reported yet and I think part of what the Night Springs "secret society" is all about is helping cover stuff up to keep people from panicking. Just my interpretation, though.
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