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Thomas Zane: Dead or Alive? (Spoiler Alert!)

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  • Re: Thomas Zane: Dead or Alive? (Spoiler Alert!)

    Originally posted by Bantantur View Post
    The simplest way to figure out the truth behind everything is to just ask the man who wrote the story of Alan Wake, Sam Lake. I imagine he would be the best person to reveal the mysteries behind Zane, albeit, you might have a tough time getting a hold of him and he probably wouldn't disclose much information since Remedy might eventually make another Alan Wake game.

    However, if you happen to be a friend of Sam then you can just ask him and he might tell you. It's also a possibility that he doesn't know the truth because even the best writers don't know everything to their story, for them, as they write, it's a constant and ever-changing world. The end of Alan Wake left a lot to be desired, so there's a good chance that Sam Lake doesn't know the truth yet either.
    Oh, Sam Lake knows the truth about Alan Wake. Not only does Sam Lake know the truth about Alan Wake, he owns it! A good writer always knows what they are writing about. A good writer always knows. Always! Unfortunately, I just think we are not going to get anything from Sam. It’s just how the game is made and written. And I like it just the way it is. I don’t know about other people complaining about the game and what not. But for me, I like the game just the way it is.

    Yes, Sam Lake and Remedy might eventually make another Alan Wake game. That would be great. But who knows? Eventually, I still like the Alan Wake game just the way it is no matter what will happen with the future of this franchise. I wish the “true” and “original” Remedy team all the best with Alan Wake and of course Quantum Break.

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    • Re: Thomas Zane: Dead or Alive? (Spoiler Alert!)

      Hello there peeps. I've been binging on several old movie trilogies such as Star Wars (a double trilogy,) Back to the Future, Terminator and much, much more. I've discovered that some themes of these movies have similar topics to what is being discussed on this thread. I would like to make a contribution here but I think I'm not good enough to do so, unlike most of you who have already given much here. However, considering that nothing is really going on with the Alan Wake forums nowadays, I decided to give it a shot. Here goes nothing.

      My contribution to this thread was inspired by the movie Terminator trilogy, with the famous and infamous "Governator" himself Mr. Arnold Schwarzenegger. Given the nature of what was being discussed on this thread, I think that some aspect of the movie could be compared to the theory being given here, what was it again, the Paradox Theory something? Anyway, in the first Terminator movie, the future of humankind is somewhat bleak. There was a nuclear holocaust that happened sometime in the future causing machines with AI taking over the world and fighting the remaining humans that have survived. In the movie, a machine, a cyborg robot to be exact, called the Terminator or the T-800, played by non-other than Mr. Schwarzenegger himself was sent from the future by the Machines to go back in time, into the present time to kill a person named Sarah Connor, who is supposed to be the mother of a certain John Connor, who is supposed to be the man and the leader responsible for leading what is left of humankind in the future to fight the Robotic Machines that are taking over the entire world in our future.

      Now, this John Connor is probably very successful in fighting these Robotic Machines in the future that the Machines decided to send a Terminator robot back in time, in the present time, to kill and terminate Sarah Connor, (John Connor's mother,) who is living before the time that John Connor was even conceive and born. In short, John Connor is not conceive or born yet at the time the Terminator robot arrived from the future to kill Sarah Connor, the alleged mother of John Connor. This is the last ditch effort, so to speak, the last plan by the Machines to stop John Connor from succeeding in the future.

      If the Terminator robot will be successful in killing Sarah Connor in the present time, that is before John Conor is conceive and born, that would mean that John Connor would not be born in the near future. And no John Connor in the future means no leader of humankind to fight the machines in the future. Which would mean that the Machines would win and take over the world in the future. What a smart thinking machine, huh? To be able to come up with such an idea of sending a Terminator robot back in time to kill the mother of their enemy before this enemy is even conceive and born, thus erasing this enemy's existence in the future as if he does not exist and will not exist at all. It's like changing the course of history and re-writing it according to how you want it done. It's a fascinating concept, really. One that has been used in many movies, and stories overtime. Kind of similar to the Alan Wake game in a way.

      Anyways, that's not all of it. Yeeeeaap! There's more to this story. Since John Connor is already alive and living in the future, conceived and birthed by his mother Sarah Connor and being the leader of humankind fighting the Machines in the future time. In order to prevent and avoid what the Machines are planning to do, that is to kill his mother before he is born, John Connor decided to also send one of his own trusted soldier back to the present time to protect his own mother, Sarah Connor from the Terminator robot that the Machines have sent. The soldier's name that was sent back in time is Kyle.

      Now, in order for Kyle to find and identify Sarah Connor and protect her, John Connor gave Kyle a picture, a photo of his mother, Sarah Connor, before going back in time so that Kyle would recognize Sarah Connor when Kyle goes back in time to search and look for her. When Kyle finally travelled back in time into the present, he found Sarah Connor. Kyle told Sarah Connor what is going on, why this humongous lunatic guy (Arnold the Terminator) is trying to kill her, why Kyle is there and where he is from. Kyle told Sarah Connor that she will have a son named John Connor who will become the leader of humankind fighting the machines in the future and that Kyle was sent back by her son John Connor back in time to protect her from the Terminator that was sent back by the Machines to kill her before John Connor is conceive and born, thus changing the course of the future where John Connor does not exist, blah, blah, blah...

      In short, Sarah Connor believed Kyle's story and trusted him. In fact, Sarah Connor was so trusting with Kyle that she became affectionate with Kyle. In short, Kyle and Sarah Connor did the horizontal boogie. If you don't know what that is, they did the human reproduction way. A mating ritual, so to speak. Just go look it up if you want to know more.

      So, to cut it short, in the end Kyle was able to protect and defend Sarah Connor and destroyed the Terminator robot. Terminator terminated! But in the process of doing so, Kyle also got terminated, he died. But Kyle's mission was a success as he was able to keep Sarah Connor alive, which is the most important thing because Sarah Connor is the mother of John Connor which is the main mission of Kyle to protect. Not only did Kyle kept Sarah Connor alive and allow the continuity of John Connor in the future, Kyle made his meeting with Sarah Connor fruitful. Very fruitful! As at the end of the movie, we have discovered that Sarah Connor is actually pregnant with a son, who will become John Connor. And guess who is the father? Yeeeeaap, it's the culprit himself, Kyle, who did the horizontal boogie with Sarah Conor. In short, Kyle is the father of John Connor. At the ending scene, we also see Sarah taking a photo, a picture of herself, her pregnant self. Sort of a "selfie" kind of way. This picture, a selfie photo of pregnant Sarah Connor, we found out is also the same photo that John Connor gave to Kyle in the future before actually meeting Sarah Connor and before impregnating her. How could that happen?

      That is what I believe is called a Paradox. Is that the same as to what they were talking about here on this thread, which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

      Now, here is the part that blows my mind. Kyle, the soldier that was sent back in time by John Connor to protect her mother, Sarah Connor, is also now John Connor's father. At the ending scene we see Sarah Connor pregnant with her son John Connor and the father is Kyle. Kyle who was sent back in time by John Connor. John Connor who will become the son of Kyle when Kyle goes back in time who was sent back by John Connor. Do you see the connection? It's like a loop now. An unbreakable loop. What if John Connor did not send Kyle back in time, would Kyle still be John Connor's father? But the picture that John Connor gave to Kyle, the "selfie" pregnant photo of Sarah Connor that John Connor gave to Kyle in the future before he was sent back in time is the same photo of pregnant Sarah Connor where Kyle is already the father of John Connor. The photo is already the same photo of Pregnant Sarah Connor where Kyle is the father of John Connor but Kyle is looking at it in the future before going back in time and before even meeting and impregnating Sarah Connor and yet in the photo, Kyle is already the father of Sarah Connor's child. How on earth did that happen?......................An unbreakable loop?

      Even pregnant Sarah Connor mentions something about this at the ending scene. How John Connor, her son whom she is carrying on her belly right now and is yet to be born has sent Kyle who is now become his own father. What the hell?...........

      Pardon the language folks but my skull is cracking and my brain is turning into goo just thinking about this. I guess that's what they call a Paradox. It's just uncrackable. I am going bonkers just thinking about it. Is this what they are trying to say here about the Alan Wake game and the Paradox Theory? That the game is like a paradox, an uncrackable loop? I'm really starting to dig this Paradox Theory. But my head is like having a splitting headache just thinking and writing about this John Connor and Kyle father-son relationship thingy! It's worse than the Wake and Zane connection thingy that people are arguing about. I guess that's why they called it the "Paradox Theory." If it is plausible in the movie setting, maybe this could also be plausible in the Alan Wake game? Just a thought, my peeps, or shall I say just a theory, a "Paradox Theory?"

      Well, I hope I did not mess up this thread by adding some of my blabbering here. I hope I could do some more but I'm not as good as most of you are here. Maybe if I get inspired some more by doing more Trilogy binging. Until then...
      Last edited by Dark Mocha; 04-25-2014, 09:50 PM.

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      • Re: Thomas Zane: Dead or Alive? (Spoiler Alert!)

        What's up people? Kinda quiet around here nowadays, huh? Anyways, I just finished some trilogies again and figured I might share some of the thoughts circling around upstairs in my hollow shell. I figure there are a lot of interpretations about the Alan Wake game and still a lot of mysteries that aren't answered yet. And so, I would like to add something here about the mystery of Mr. Scratch in the first game and I hope I don't mess it up. My ramblings are nothing really compared to what was already been discussed here in this thread. I'm just trying to voice out something that kind of lights up in my thoughts like fireworks after watching these trilogies. I hope you all will allow me please. Here goes nothing again.

        In the AW game, the appearance of Mr. Scratch was not properly explained, or shall I say mysteriously introduced. And still to this day remains as one of the mysteries of the game. You see, in the AW game, Mr. Scratch is like a doppelgänger, as they say here in previous posts. In this thread, I like the explanation given in this "Paradox Theory" where Alan Wake and Mr. Scratch are actually one and the same person. In the Paradox Theory, they said Alan Wake looks kind of serious and Mr. Scratch is somewhat innocent looking as you can see in the cut scene at the end of the game. The Paradox Theory above states that Mr. Scratch looks kinda innocent because he is the same Alan Wake that we are playing in the very beginning sent back in time creating a loop or a paradox and that when Scratch was introduced with Alan at the end of the game, Alan is actually also Scratch but Alan has already experienced all that madness and Scratch is just about to when we start the game for the very first time, hence creating a paradox loop from beginning to the end of the game.

        I guess this could happen when you mess up with time and realities. Just like the recent trilogy I have finished watching again. It's called "Back to the Future" trilogy. I'm sure most of you are familiar with this. It's an old one. If you haven't watched this yet, then go do it first, some spoilers ahead. Anyways, I have something from the first Back to the Future movie, and we go all the way close to the ending. This is where Marty McFly (Michael J Fox) came back from the past to the present time. When Marty came back, there was some time difference between Marty that was about to leave and go into the past and the Marty that just arrived from the past. In short, in that particular given time of the present time, the Marty that was coming back from the past arrived several minutes earlier before the Marty that was about to leave to go into the past. In short again, there are exactly TWO Marty's present in that particularly given time in the present time. TWO Marty's that are actually one and the same present at the same time. One Marty is the innocent one who is just about to go into the past and experience all that chaos that we saw in the movie and the other one is the Marty that just came back from the past having experienced all that chaos that we just saw in the movie, but they are both one and the same Marty representing one person in that particular point in time.

        In the ending when we see the innocent Marty goes away into the past, he is the same Marty that we saw when we started the movie and the same Marty that came back from the past at the end of the movie. But in one instance, they were both present in that particular point in time. When the innocent Marty goes away into the past, his existence in the present time will now be continued by the Marty that just came back from the past, that's because they are one and the same person. But in one particular point in time, there were TWO of them and yet they are one and the same. Kind of like Alan Wake and Mr. Scratch in the game as explained previously by this "Paradox Theory." Mr. Scratch and Alan Wake are both present in one particular point in time in a metaphorical way. Innocent looking Scratch goes back in the beginning of the game and Scratch becomes Wake and is actually also Wake himself until the end of the game, creating a closed loop. A Paradox! Scratch and Wake are one and the same person, but only in the first game.

        If I got it correctly, in this Paradox Theory, every time we play the beginning of the Alan Wake game, we are already playing innocent Scratch, already sent back in time from the ending of the game, who is also Alan Wake, one and the same, until they both meet again at the end of the game in a metaphorical way. Man, I hope I did not mess this up. I was just trying to compare my thoughts with what I have learned here about the Paradox Theory. Anyways, I hope you all pardon my blabbering here, and if you want to learn more about Scratch and the explanation of Scratch in the Paradox Theory, I guess you could always go back to the source and read the beginning of this thread. So, does the Paradox Theory still lives? As for me, I'm just another spectator here trying to figure out what the hell is going on with all of this madness. I hope I contributed some, or maybe just a little bit, in here.

        Until next time, my peeps. Keep frosty!

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        • Re: Thomas Zane: Dead or Alive? (Spoiler Alert!)

          It has been quiet around here.

          I sorta miss the fervor and all of that.
          "Because you won, I am speaking in a Dramatic Voice"

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          • Re: Thomas Zane: Dead or Alive? (Spoiler Alert!)

            Originally posted by Hunter6 View Post
            It has been quiet around here.

            I sorta miss the fervor and all of that.
            Quiet?...

            You mean dead, no?

            It's dead around the Alan Wake threads nowadays. Zombies and Taken are more alive than the Alan Wake threads these days. There are some contributions in the art department every now and then. But most of the time, it feels like somebody is just talking to themselves, you know, weird stuff.

            I also miss the fervor when members really push out some intriguing and intellectual things to talk about, especially in this thread. My time is kinda tied-up with a lot of projects right now, but when I get the chance soon, I will surely add something here again.


            In the meantime, keep it frosty everybody!

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            • Re: Thomas Zane: Dead or Alive? (Spoiler Alert!)

              Wow, it's been a long time since I've been here. My last post was around 9 months ago? Wow, that seems like almost a year ago. Got busy with a lot of projects. Anyways, how is everybody? As for me, everything is great. Recently, I've seen a movie that sort of reflects what is being discussed here, and that inspired me to come back here and share it with you guys.

              The movie is called "Predestination." The main character is portrayed by Ethan Hawke. Now, if you haven't seen this movie, I suggest that you watch it first as there may be some spoiler in here. We don't want to spoil the story for you, right? It would also engage you what we are about to discuss here if you have seen the movie first.

              Let's begin. Predestination is a story about paradox or paradoxes. The film begins with a temporal agent (Ethan) attempting to apprehend an infamous terrorist known as the 'Fizzle Bomber', who planted a bomb in a building attempting to kill hundreds of people. The agent (Ethan) succeeds in containing the bomb but is severely injured when his face is partially exposed to the resulting explosion. The Fizzle Bomber manages to escape and the temporal agent (Ethan) returns to his timeline (in the future) using a coordinate transformer field kit (a time machine) with the help of an unknown person.

              Returning to the future, in 1992, the agent (Ethan) awakens to find that he has undergone facial surgery to save his life. Doctors grafted on new skin and reconstructed the agent's face and throat as they were badly damaged. It is revealed during this time that the agent works for a mysterious organization, known as the Temporal Bureau, that sends temporal agents through time to prevent major crimes that would cost the lives of thousands of people and that the Fizzle Bomber is the only criminal to elude them thus far; the Fizzle Bomber is also responsible for killing 11,000 people in New York in 1975.

              Once the agent (Ethan) is healed, he is ordered to embark on a final mission before he is decommissioned from the agency. The agent accepts the mission, uses his coordinate transformer field kit (which is disguised as a violin case) to travel back in time to 1978, and works as a bartender in New York. The bartender (Ethan) seemingly awaits the arrival of a particular customer who he starts chatting with. This customer, a man, is referred to as the 'Unmarried Mother' since he writes confession magazines, many of them presumably from the point of view of an unmarried mother.

              The Unmarried Mother and bartender (Ethan) start talking and the Unmarried Mother wagers a bottle of liquor if his story is enough to shock or surprise the bartender. The bartender agrees and the Unmarried Mother tells the bartender of his past. The Unmarried Mother explains that he was originally a girl and was taken into an orphanage on September 13, 1945, when she was left at the orphanage doorstep. She was named 'Jane' by one of the workers at the orphanage.

              The Unmarried Mother recounts events in his life when he was a girl, saying that he envied children with parents and felt he was different somehow. He also states that he was quite gifted and was very good in all scientific fields and was physically strong, being able to fight boys. The Unmarried Mother tells the bartender that she wanted to join the space corps to help and service astronauts in space as she wanted to go to outer space herself and enlisted. Jane excelled in all the tests set for her by the space corps, but she was disqualified during the selection process as doctors found a medical anomaly during her physical, revealing that Jane has an inter-sex condition were he/she has two sets of sex organs: male and female. The doctors do not tell Jane this, however, and she tries to move on with her life.

              Jane eventually goes to night classes in Cleveland to work on her demeanor and charm, but accidentally stumbles into a stranger on her way home on April 3, 1963. The two begin talking and soon start a relationship together. The Unmarried Mother tells the bartender that the two fell in love and that she believed she had met the only person who she truly cared about, but eventually the stranger left Jane and never came back. Emotionally distraught, Jane is approached by Mr. Robertson, thought to be one of the recruiting officers at the space corps, who tells Jane that he actually works for a different organization that could use someone with her intelligence and physical abilities and offers her a chance to join.

              Jane is about to accept his proposition, but falls pregnant from when she was with the stranger. Jane eventually gives birth to a baby girl, but a C-section is required to successfully remove the baby. One of the doctors who performed the operation then tells Jane that during the operation they had to surgically remove her uterus and ovaries, but since they found male sex organs intact, they surgically reconstructed Jane into a man. Jane's child is then kidnapped by an unknown man, never to be seen again. Jane is completely reconstructed into a man with further operations. The Unmarried Mother explains that as life went on, he became a writer and started writing confession stories under the pen name 'The Unmarried Mother'. In short, Jane who is a girl, the girl who got pregnant, the girl who's baby got kidnapped and never to be seen again, is the same Jane who got completely surgical reconstructed into a man, and is now John. Jane is John.

              The Unmarried Mother (John) concludes the story and asks if he has earned the bottle of liquor. The bartender almost gives him the bottle, but quickly reveals that he knows the Unmarried Mother's new male name which is 'John' and other details in John/Jane's life. John eventually follows the bartender (Ethan) into a secure basement underneath the bar. The bartender tells John that he actually works for Mr. Robertson, and that the organization Mr. Robertson was referring to was the Temporal Bureau.

              The bartender then offers John the chance to kill the man who ruined "his" life, with no repercussions as long as he agrees to be recruited into the Temporal Bureau afterwards. John accepts and they travel back in time to April 3, 1963, in Cleveland, Ohio. The bartender arms John with a gun to confront the man who seduced, impregnated, and abandoned Jane, telling him exactly where and when to find him.

              John is directed to Cleveland College, but when he gets there he accidentally meets Jane, his younger female self, while the bartender/temporal agent (Ethan) looks on from a distance and eventually uses his time machine to travel into the future. The agent (Ethan) ends up in the exact same building in New York in the beginning of the film, only he arrives a few minutes earlier than his former self to stop the Fizzle Bomber. He spots the Fizzle Bomber and fights him, but is incapacitated in the ensuing fight. He then wakes to the sound of an explosion and gunfire and realizes that his former self (from the beginning of the movie) has been injured and he wasn't able to stop the bomber. He is revealed to be the man who helps his former self reach his time machine in order to get back to the Temporal Bureau in 1985.

              The temporal agent (Ethan) uses his time machine to travel back to March 1964 where he meets with Robertson. The agent (Ethan) managed to grab some evidence from the bomb used by the Fizzle Bomber and hands it over to Robertson. It is shown that Robertson and the agent (Ethan) are actually having their conversation in the hospital ward where Jane's child is born. The temporal agent/bartender (Ethan) then kidnaps the child and takes the baby girl back in time to the same orphanage that Jane grew up in, in 1945. The temporal agent (Ethan) soon returns to 1963 to retrieve John and reveals to him his mission and why he set John and Jane together.

              The temporal agent (Ethan) explains that he (Ethan), John, Jane and the child (kidnapped baby) are all the same person that exist through a predestined time paradox. He tells John that he needed John to meet with Jane in order for her to become pregnant and give birth to a child who would eventually grow up to be them. If the temporal agent (Ethan) had not kidnapped the child and transported her back to 1945, or if he (Ethan) had not set up John and Jane, none of them would exist. John states that he doesn't want to leave Jane, but the temporal agent (Ethan) insists it has to be.

              The temporal agent (Ethan) takes the Unmarried Mother, John, to the Temporal Bureau in 1985, to ensure his own existence so that he could prevent the crimes to come, and is decommissioned. Robertson also gives the temporal agent a file containing new leads recovered from the evidence he gave Robertson. The temporal agent/bartender/future John (Ethan), then returns to his own timeline to live out a normal life as best he can in 1975 New York. He then deactivates his time machine, but it encounters an error and does not deactivate properly. The agent/future John (Ethan) soon deduces where to find the bomber using the leads given to him by Robertson.

              The agent eventually finds the bomber in a laundromat store. To the agent's shock he sees that the Fizzle Bomber is actually him in the future. The Fizzle bomber states that he saved more lives than he has taken as a result of his actions and that Robertson is setting them up. The Fizzle Bomber, seemingly insane, says that if the agent kills him the agent will become him as it is a repetitive cycle, but if the agent loves him again when he was Jane and John, then they can break the cycle. Disgusted with his future self, the agent decides to kill the Fizzle Bomber.

              The movie ends with the agent overlooking the time machine stating that he knows for sure that Jane, John and himself were the best things that have happened to him in his life and that he misses his past selves dreadfully.

              That's it folks. Fascinating, isn't it? The baby Jane, Jane herself, John (the writer), the Temporal Agent (Ethan), and the Fizzle Bomber are all one person. This is a classic example of a mind blowing Paradox. A brainf*ck! Jane is the mother and the father of herself/himself. There won't be a baby Jane if Jane (herself) and John (also her in the future) doesn't exist. A classic example of which comes first, the chicken or the egg? The most basic paradoxical question. Aside from being the beginning of herself/himself, Jane is also the end of herself/himself. Jane becoming John, John becoming the Temporal Agent, Temporal Agent retires and becoming the Fizzle Bomber, Fizzle Bomber killed by Temporal Agent who is also him. In short, Jane is the beginning of herself/himself and also the end of herself/himself. A closed loop. A Paradox!

              Now, what has this got to do with Alan Wake? Well, I don't know, but I just want to add it here since everybody here is talking about a theory called the "Paradox Theory." The theory implies that the story in Alan Wake is like a paradox. Everything is already written and is coming true from beginning to end. Hence, creating a paradox. I guess I don't have to elaborate it again. If you want to learn more about this "Paradox Theory," just read this entire thread again. They explain it better than I do.

              Nice to be back in here again. I apologize for this extra long post. I guess that makes up for the long 9 months I haven't been writing in here.


              Stay frosty my peeps!

              Comment


              • So I think Thomas Zane is Alan Wake. Given that Quantum Break is about time travel, but not that it is of important. If Alan Wake inspires to be a serious writer. Thomas Zane seems like as serious writer as you can get. A poet, not a great choice for prosperity. So Zane is an antithesis of Alan Wake, a best seller writer a "sellout". Yeah I watched the stream and had a thought.....again.
                Given that in my theory, Zane represent The Writer in Alan Wake Story. In a very symbolic sense. If the bottom line question is who created who? I say that Alan becomes Zane. But not necessarily in the most literal sense, but in some twisted dream logic fuckery way.

                Not that anyone sees or uses the forum anymore..... Fuck Twitter exc. and all that nonsense noise.

                Here's to screaming in the void. Expecting A Answer!!!!!!!!
                I don't wanna be buried in a pet cemetary

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