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  • Political Views?

    Thought it would be nice to share our political views. But please, don't argue in this thread about them, please take it up in your inbox. I don't want this to get shut down or anything.

    I don't really have a political party, seeing that I am an anarchist. And not the "let chaos reign" type of anarchist, more of the "let people rule their own lives in peace" kind. This piece that the great Alan Moore wrote was the start of my belief. Then after reading V for Vendetta by Moore and Fight Club by Chuck Palahniuk, my life completely changed.

    http://news.infoshop.org/article.php...oore-interview
    Last edited by Taken634; 10-16-2011, 07:49 PM.
    Do a looney-gooney dance, cross the kitchen floor, put something silly in the world that ain't been there before.

  • #2
    Re: Political Views?

    My "political views" would be a joke to anyone who listens. I'd say the system we have in Finland needs improvements, but as the stupider part of the system, I would not suggest anything myself, 'cause I just wouldn't know a better way to deal with things. Let's just say that even though democracy seems usually the way to go, it still stands as the "the least unfair one", and such a way of thinking applies to every form of governing out there.

    My political views stand where my needs are I guess, and since my interest in politics ends at the very least requirement, which is, to understand the process of governing and making decisions here in Finland, my views on it are limited at best.

    What I want is more financial support for students. The argument here in Finland to this state has been "they don't need to be supported as much as the unemployed, since they still HAVE a future, naturally, because they are studying for it". It does make sense, but it sure isn't helping, because "theoretically" doesn't work in real work life.

    Secondly, I want the government to invest more into the preservation of nature, and natural habitats. We have a green party here in Finland whose interests lie in that direction, but like any given party, it's chances of getting anything through the system, is always a compromise, like it is in democratic system. I am not complaining, that's just the fact.

    The biggest problem of democracy is that the minority suffers, which is what usually happens in decisions concerning nature or environment. The other wish I have, the student support, is hard because of the younger population's interest in politics. It's not enough. There is plenty of it, but with all the other problems, especially during the Eurocrisis, it just isn't good enough.

    I haven't lost my faith to the system yet though.
    We are what we choose to be, not what we want to be

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    • #3
      Re: Political Views?

      By Finnish standards I would categorize myself as moderate conservative, which of course implies socialism for most people in the world.

      More specifically I'm socially moderately conservative, but fiscal socialist. I do like the Nordic system which provides social security for people who are not very well off. That includes me. I do work (I'm strictly speaking a small business owner) but my income is very low. I think it's fair that the wealthier parts of society partly provide for the poorer, but at the same time I dont want to be naive about it; I do expect the people who get benefits to use that money wisely - which I feel they often don't, and then demand more.

      I find it ridiculous when I read news about people who have stable jobs saying that they can't make their ends meet, when I can do that with much lesser income. One problem Finland has IMO is that people are used to things they can't afford. Granted, I don't go on fancy holidays, but neither am I complaining about being broke.
      End of the internets

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      • #4
        Re: Political Views?

        My political views are rather democratic and idealistic than socialistic and stuff, which means that whatever I want, I want to share it with everybody in a democratic way, so that everyone can be happy, because they have the same share as me and everybody else.

        To tell you the truth, I loathe the neo-liberalism, because whatever it does, it does no good to every person, who tries to solve the problems. The neo-liberalism ought to be banned from every political and economical world, because everybody learned from the incidents of India and Argentina, and recently of Poland, Romania and Hungary.

        Nowadays, I have lost faith in the current system, due of some stupid politicians, because they spent the moneys to donate the problems rather than the solutions. It doesn't matter whether I participate in the riots or not, the politicians are so stupid.

        Let me tell you something, the job of the politician is to tune and make better every citizen's life, not to **** it, like what the politicians do nowadays.

        That's what I think, IMO.
        The game can take you in a journey of fantasy, cause your mind is the creator of fantasy !

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        • #5
          Re: Political Views?

          Originally posted by Taken634 View Post
          Thought it would be nice to share our political views. But please, don't argue in this thread about them, please take it up in your inbox. I don't want this to get shut down or anything.
          This could get interesting, but as long as people keep their views to themselves and respect the views of others, this could be an alright thread.

          My own political view is that the democratic system is outdated and inefficient. Outdated because too few politicians are out on the streets or online, talking with their citizens about issues that affect the majority of the population. There are so many opportunities for politicians and governments to step out of their traditional parliamentary models and improve daily issues of citizens, but governments are too settled and legally bound to break those shackles.
          By inefficient, I refer to the decision making processes, misdirected resources and uncontrolled spending. The legal system has made the political decisions last for months before anything is actually done. Governments hire too many people for cozy jobs that aren't that necessary, and the workers take advantage of this. Working in the private sector, I work damn hard and am proud of the work I do. To see government workers cruise through their 9-5 work day, turning up to collect a pay check is just plain insulting.

          I think these two issues need to be addressed if the world is to break out of this economic crisis we have going on at the moment.
          Remedy's currently known projects:
          Quantum Break - 2016

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          • #6
            Re: Political Views?

            Originally posted by Taken634 View Post
            Then after reading V for Vendetta by Moore and Fight Club by Chuck Palahniuk, my life completely changed.

            http://news.infoshop.org/article.php...oore-interview
            wow i ever thought im the only one who feels this way about those epic pieces of art.
            especially fight club changed the way i think about things, i think a project mayhem would be something the world needs.
            "Reality is overrated."

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            • #7
              Re: Political Views?

              Minority groups and old-school rich people pretty much set the policy of all politics (in a democratic "1st world" nation such as where I live). What the mainstream people want, we never get, we just get lies and obfuscation. Typically delivering on some things, but it's usually the big picture projects that require long term planning that are the first to get shafted when budgets start blowing out. So.... town planning never gets anywhere, big giant govt projects always go overbudget. Whereas if I go overbudget by 10% the SHIT literally hits the fan at my work. But if the govt goes overbudget by 200%, everyone just hears about it in the paper one day, nods and then falls asleep into their coffee pot and votes them in again.

              I am probably a conservative liberal (which probably isn't what you think it is as I mean liberal as in the liberal party in australia [which isn't very liberal]). But I don't really like their policies anymore. I identify more with the "young liberals" to any other aussies out there than the actual liberal party these days. (Mainly because their policies are actually somewhat forward thinking). But I still find them more offensive than the rest of politics mainly because they're a little naive and scathing of other politicians rather than just setting a good example.

              I think my biggest gripe with politics is that people that would have amazing things to give to the world of politics wouldn't want to work in it, because we've made it seem to be one of the most public, defaming, horrible jobs possible. All politicians in my country get ridiculed. Not just for their job performance, but for their looks, partners, extra-curricular activities, previous history and on and on and on. They get snipped and shredded by media. Berated by crazies and minority groups. No wonder they have no time to think about the majority of their citizens or get anything done. Sometimes china looks to have it right. But I know there must be a working democracy that fits the current bill, while promoting it as a commendable and highly respected career path. I just don't see it happening considering my countries current culture and habits in relation to politicians. Therefore quality people won't ever become politicians as the attractiveness of the job will be so low that they'll become CEOs instead.
              Last edited by yogibbear; 10-17-2011, 10:27 AM.
              Sarah Breaker > Barry Wheeler. Yep, I went there!

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              • #8
                Re: Political Views?

                Originally posted by MrSelf-Destruct View Post
                especially fight club changed the way i think about things, i think a project mayhem would be something the world needs.
                I'm sorry, but you do realize that Project Mayhem in Fight Club (or the fight club itself, for that matter) is not presented as a good thing? It's centered around a cult of personality that demands blind obedience and instills a totalitarian world view that doesn't even allow people to have names, let alone opinions of their own. ("The first rule of Project Mayhem is that you do not ask questions about Project Mayhem.")

                It's a great book and a great movie, no question -- but to be blunt, if that's what you took away from it, you may have seriously misunderstood the point of the story.
                Story Team Manager at Remedy. Like the occasional stupid remark? Follow me on Twitter: @MikkiRMD

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                • #9
                  Re: Political Views?

                  Originally posted by MikkiRMD View Post
                  I'm sorry, but you do realize that Project Mayhem in Fight Club (or the fight club itself, for that matter) is not presented as a good thing? It's centered around a cult of personality that demands blind obedience and instills a totalitarian world view that doesn't even allow people to have names, let alone opinions of their own. ("The first rule of Project Mayhem is that you do not ask questions about Project Mayhem.")

                  It's a great book and a great movie, no question -- but to be blunt, if that's what you took away from it, you may have seriously misunderstood the point of the story.
                  yeah i know that, but look at the world today i mean maybe you dont get what i meant, no offense to you buddy, but im at a point of my life where theres no future, i got absolutley nothing, because the only thing that matters in this sick world is money and the way you looks and i got nothing from both.
                  i get what you mean and yes i agree, its not perfect but it would be definetly better then now. in my opinion of course.
                  a world how tyler imagines would be a better world as we got now i think.

                  IN TYLER WE TRUST
                  "Reality is overrated."

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                  • #10
                    Re: Political Views?

                    Originally posted by MrSelf-Destruct View Post
                    yeah i know that, but look at the world today i mean maybe you dont get what i meant, no offense to you buddy, but im at a point of my life where theres no future, i got absolutley nothing, because the only thing that matters in this sick world is money and the way you looks and i got nothing from both.
                    i get what you mean and yes i agree, its not perfect but it would be definetly better then now. in my opinion of course.
                    a world how tyler imagines would be a better world as we got now i think.

                    IN TYLER WE TRUST
                    Right...... to each their own. Not sure you quite understand how lucky you are. You must have functioning electricity and the internet. So pretty sure you can't be in that bad a state.
                    Sarah Breaker > Barry Wheeler. Yep, I went there!

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                    • #11
                      Re: Political Views?

                      Originally posted by yogibbear View Post
                      Right...... to each their own. Not sure you quite understand how lucky you are. You must have functioning electricity and the internet. So pretty sure you can't be in that bad a state.
                      oh cool electricity and internet, well that means nothing to me i could live without internet.
                      such trivial things mean nothing in the end, when you end up all alone 24/7 and got nothing and no one.
                      "Reality is overrated."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Political Views?

                        Originally posted by MrSelf-Destruct View Post
                        such trivial things mean nothing in the end, when you end up all alone 24/7 and got nothing and no one.
                        I'm sorry to hear that. Still, with Tyler Durden you'd end up an expendable soldier in an army that's on a mission that you aren't allowed to ask questions about, a depersonalized "space monkey," who isn't even allowed to have a name, commanded by a person with a serious mental illness. I think you might not actually find that preferable.

                        (Or maybe you would, I don't know.)

                        Which is not to say that a lot of what Tyler says about materialism isn't relevant, obviously. Of course it is! That's a big part of why he's such a great character, and why it's so easy to relate to so much of what he says. But that's also why he's so dangerous, because he finds disillusioned, violence-prone men who feel hopeless and adrift, and he gives them a sense of community and belonging, and then he molds them into what he wants them to be, systematically stripping them of even their personalities. It's the kind of ideology that sounds initially great, because it does address the kind of fears, anxieties and frustrations a lot of us feel every day... but it breaks down real quick when somebody gets seriously ill and you realize that what he's fantasizing about is purely survival of the fittest with no support system in place for anybody who isn't a fierce hunter-gatherer-warrior, or anybody who disagrees with him, for that matter. The people Tyler "frees" end up being his foot soldiers, manipulated and discarded as required. It's just a form of fascism, really (which is kind of the point).

                        And like I said, I love Fight Club! It's a great story. But Tyler is the bad guy in it, and he's the bad guy precisely because he's so seductive and completely unwilling to compromise, and he doesn't care who gets hurt or killed. He's completely sincere about it, of course; he's like a religious fanatic in that sense, but that makes it even worse; there's no compromise in Tyler, no reasoning with him. After all, he's the product of mental illness; he's relentless, the product of obsessive desire to break down both himself and the world, because he can't really deal with either, and there's that edge of self-destructive, even suicidal behavior evident throughout everything he does. (I don't want to spoil the story for anybody here, but that one thing about Tyler Durden -- you know the story, you know what I mean -- is extremely relevant to all this.)

                        It's absolutely fascinating stuff... but as a role model, I think he leaves a lot to be desired.

                        Hope things look up for you, dude.
                        Story Team Manager at Remedy. Like the occasional stupid remark? Follow me on Twitter: @MikkiRMD

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Political Views?

                          Originally posted by MikkiRMD View Post
                          I'm sorry to hear that. Still, with Tyler Durden you'd end up an expendable soldier in an army that's on a mission that you aren't allowed to ask questions about, a depersonalized "space monkey," who isn't even allowed to have a name, commanded by a person with a serious mental illness. I think you might not actually find that preferable.

                          (Or maybe you would, I don't know.)
                          to be honest, yes sometimes i wish i had somebody that tolds me and helps me with the things i do, like a year ago where everything was just fine but, i know what you mean and thats the point i agree with you.

                          Which is not to say that a lot of what Tyler says about materialism isn't relevant, obviously. Of course it is! That's a big part of why he's such a great character, and why it's so easy to relate to so much of what he says. But that's also why he's so dangerous, because he finds disillusioned, violence-prone men who feel hopeless and adrift, and he gives them a sense of community and belonging, and then he molds them into what he wants them to be, systematically stripping them of even their personalities. It's the kind of ideology that sounds initially great, because it does address the kind of fears, anxieties and frustrations a lot of us feel every day... but it breaks down real quick when somebody gets seriously ill and you realize that what he's fantasizing about is purely survival of the fittest with no support system in place for anybody who isn't a fierce hunter-gatherer-warrior, or anybody who disagrees with him, for that matter. The people Tyler "frees" end up being his foot soldiers, manipulated and discarded as required. It's just a form of fascism, really (which is kind of the point).
                          well, i am one of the disillusioned hopeless men, at some point of life when it just gets too much and happens over and over again ou just cant deal with it anymore alone.
                          it would great to get freed in this way and life is allways a survival of the fittest with no support system when youre left all alone.

                          And like I said, I love Fight Club! It's a great story. But Tyler is the bad guy in it, and he's the bad guy precisely because he's so seductive and completely unwilling to compromise, and he doesn't care who gets hurt or killed. He's completely sincere about it, of course; he's like a religious fanatic in that sense, but that makes it even worse; there's no compromise in Tyler, no reasoning with him. After all, he's the product of mental illness; he's relentless, the product of obsessive desire to break down both himself and the world, because he can't really deal with either, and there's that edge of self-destructive, even suicidal behavior evident throughout everything he does. (I don't want to spoil the story for anybody here, but that one thing about Tyler Durden -- you know the story, you know what I mean -- is extremely relevant to all this.)
                          wow i read fight club so many times but, i never looked at tyler as the bad guy, really. in my eyes he ever was someone hopeless self-destructive like me that just trys to fight back all the shit the fate is giving him, which i cant anymore. youre really add a new facette to tyler for me.
                          "Reality is overrated."

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                          • #14
                            Re: Political Views?

                            Does this thread happen to have anything to do with Occupy Wall Street? Well, it will now.

                            I can agree with a lot of what is coming out of that movement, but I do wish it would become more cohesive. It's too many people protesting too many things at once. I get the feeling that if they focused on one or two issues that seem the most important to them, a lot of the other things they're protesting would fall into place.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Political Views?

                              Mikki, I could not agree with you anymore. It's easy to see why Tyler is such a role model to so many men; he is the need to destroy, a rabid guard dog that has no boundaries, everything that most men want to be.

                              But if you ask me, the true role model of the film is actually the narrator that we see at the end of the book/film. Instead of letting himself be molded by Tyler into a "space-monkey", he instead destroys Tyler and chooses his own destiny, taking responsibility for his actions. Project Mayhem was nothing more than a fascist system underneath an anarchist guise, being led by a madman who wanted to become a God.

                              Still...I don't think Fight Club should ever be viewed as a political book, seeing its more of a spiritual one. The main point of the book and movie was to live the life you want to live, choose your own destiny, and take responsibility for your actions. Nothing else.

                              __________________________________________________ _________________

                              As for a real life Project Mayhem..I'm not so sure about that. Think about it: if a group of people were to go out and blow up every building, shoot every world leader, and then burn every town and city..would it do anything? No. It would only cause chaos and confusion, seeing that people have been taught for so long to rely on leaders. And also, Project Mayhem used violence as a tool to make a new society, which I don't believe in. For example; look at how America started out; with the genocide of hundreds of Native Americans. NOW LOOK AT AMERICA.

                              Instead, if you wanted to bring about anarchy..you would have to teach people to accept the absence of government. No violence needed. Of course, I'm pretty sure that most governments would never allow this, especially when it gets people to turn away from them. So you would have to make some sort of Project Mayhem like group, but free-choice would be allowed (in other words, there would not be a rule that says "You don't ask questions."

                              Then, you would have to join together with others in order to start building new communities where your society can start to build a new world. A world that rejects modern, materialistic society and instead adapts to spiritual happiness and art. A world that chooses diversity over conformity. A world without leaders. A voluntary world.

                              Of course, when I say "New World", I don't mean that nations should be ruled by anarchy, because that would never work out. Instead, I'm talking about small little communities, like the Trumbullplex.

                              Anyways though, I'll stop ranting now.
                              Last edited by Taken634; 10-17-2011, 10:21 PM.
                              Do a looney-gooney dance, cross the kitchen floor, put something silly in the world that ain't been there before.

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